SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Post #77

- He found private correspondence between his eventual future wife and her foster brother, never meant for anyone else's eyes, that together with the 50 year history of those two can help explain the marital downward trajectory and her behavior in the marriage.

No, the problem he has is the marriage today. He discovered a possible explanation from the past for a problem he has today, which is his marriage today. Frankly, you could say it steers him to the solution.

I mean, if his marriage today was fantastic, who'd give a shit about 50 year old love letters?

OF COURSE OP's marriage today (and not OP himself) is a big problem. OF COURSE it--the package of letters that is--was never meant for anyone else's eyes. But it is absolutely in the OP's sphere of concern. Whether their marriage was seemingly great or not. If nothing else OP's wife was keeping a (platonic or no) relationship with her ex(?)-lover with both of them in on the secret and the OP none-the-wiser. This is about OP's life too, and he has every right to find out more about the relationship uncovered by those letters.

Not answered nor addressed in that long post post #77 is why or how the OP is possibly 100% the problem here or how he was the one who turned a situation into a problem, as claimed post #53, and the thing I disagree w you the most. (Well that and the dismissive sanctimonious tone that seems to me to be blaming OP for being the annoying husband and reading those letters and searching for answers from his wife. You were just trying to exhort OP to take control of his life? Yeahno I'm not a fan of the delivery I'll leavd it at that.) Look, we all know the OP has the power to choose, including the power to divorce. I think we all agree that it is OP's RESPONSIBILITY to get himself out of this, as no one is coming to save him. But OP did NOT cause this problem, it was dumped in his lap. As for his reaction, I think it is absolutely understandable for the OP to feel that he has had a load dropped on him, and that he is thrown about what he has learned about his 53-year marrriage which is what he poured energy into for 53 years of HIS life too, and that he is struggling with all of this and asking his wife for answers. It--the OP's quest for answers from his wife--may just be prolonging the inevitable D and thus the OP's pain as this marriage seems way beyond saving, but it sure as hell does NOT make the OP the problem.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:16 AM, Sunday, December 7th]

OP, do you have a deadline set for yourself on making a decision? Yes indeed, D will involve more short-term pain indeed but staying in this dead marriage has to be soul-sucking. Separating is the worst of both worlds, all the pain of D without the long-term benefit. If you do decide to date, there are a lot of women who won't want to see someone who is still legally married, even if separated.

I do not have a specific timeline at this point. I hope to make one while I recover from my shoulder surgery. I know how that sounds. Easy to kick the can down the road or wimp out all together. I have not spoken to a lawyer or made any moves to separate money. I do plan to make one last bid for honesty but I want to at least know how to move forward before I do that.

I do not plan to go through a separation. I can’t see that as anything other than prolonging the pain. I will either stay or go. I also don’t see an affair or anything like it. That would destroy the relationship with all the remaining people I hold dear.

OP, what will change between now and several weeks. Waiting for several weeks sounds to me like, well, several more weeks of rejection from someone who just does not deserve the chances you keep giving her. Nor does she deserve the open boundary you're giving her to your peace of mind.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 12:13 AM, Friday, December 5th]

I have a few questions/issues simply to better understand what’s going on. They aren’t necessarily connected, so I’m just putting them out there...

To begin with though – I don’t necessarily see infidelity as we usually define it on this site. Without knowing more about the relationship between W and BIL (then "only" second cousin) then it is possible for them to have gone on to have a "normal" non-romantic and non-emotional (beyond close family) relationship. There is a lot of maturity that takes place in the brain, in social skills and all that from 15-25, so their ongoing relationship COULD be "normal" and non-impacting on your marriage.
But then – for all we know it could have been a full-on EA or whatever. We don’t know, and I generally don’t decide my future actions on what I don’t know.

Not saying I don’t see issues in the marriage and I do understand your frustrations and concerns.
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What other letters were in that box? I find it... well... strange... that sexually charged letters between 18-year-old W (although not wife at the time) and a 16 year old boy – second cousin, and so close that he’s adopted 50 years later – are being stored and have sort-of prime-of-place at the top of a box. Since they didn’t approve of the relationship then why did they keep them for all these years? Why at the top? The general content/gist of the other letters might offer some clue.
Were it your wife storing the letters – I would imagine them hidden at the bottom. If her – any indication that she’s been going through them in the last decades? If her – then why allow you to clean out the house had she known of their existence and prominence?
Was it your late in-laws... why? It’s strange that they hang on to something they disapproved of, was probably shameful to them. Something that borders on the Romeo-and-Juliet laws in most states (although different times back in the 1970s).
If this relationship was significant enough for them to store the letters – why adopt him?

It might help if we knew who packed that box and stored it for all those years – your W or the in-laws.

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On this site we often talk about how the WS rewrites marital history. I’m wondering if you might be doing that too... even as a BS.
You state that out of a 50 year marriage the last 30 have been rough, with the last 10 especially bad and the last six months terrible.

Yet you also talk about traveling the country together, visiting grandkids, motorbikes... all in a positive tone. Maybe you did all that in the first 20 years, but this indicates that there were some positives in the marriage.
Then the drive all that way with her for her cancer treatment. Indicates care.

Not saying the last decades have been great, but have they really been bad?
Only you can answer that.

I would suggest you build your decision regarding your future on that. If this has truly been a miserable existence for 30 years, definitely seriously consider separating your lives. It’s hard to break behavioral habits, and changing a 30 year old pattern near impossible.

If it’s been OK, but some decline recently, seriously consider separating your lives BUT just as seriously consider what could be done to get the marriage back on track. IMHO that is usually done with clear – mutual – communication.

The love-letter issue? Communications. No – she can’t shove this under a rug, but at the same time you need to be willing to hear whatever she says and – if plausible enough – accept it as truth.

At your age (and I’m not really too far behind) keep in mind that your spouse is the person you are most likely to share whatever bad news comes along in the future. My wife is the one that got the "honor" of checking if it was a pimple or a hemorrhoid. She’s going to be the one who get’s to choose when to flip the switch if I ever go on life-support (and vice-versa). With all your history there shouldn’t be anything off limits to discuss. But with your age it should be done in a productive manner.
I think your best bet is to make it clear to her how this is damaging you, and how it’s really making you very seriously consider if your marriage has been fake and if it really has any future. Make it clear you want to talk this thing through – not to find villains or assign blame – but to find resolution.

If she doesn’t contribute to that... well... it’s been a good run.

I encourage you in the strongest way to tackle this as soon as possible. It will either lead to an inevitable termination of the present marriage – shortening your time to a better life – or to a healthier and happier marriage – shortening your time to a better life. All delaying will do is keep you in some form of misery.

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I want to briefly address one issue: This site doesn’t have a pro-r slant. I don’t presume to talk for the site, but simply by knowing it was founded by a couple that reconciled and was mostly held together (until her untimely loss to cancer) by a wayward wife, and by knowing a part of staff over the years have been former wayward posters, and seeing there is a Reconciliation forum then this site clearly believes reconciliation is a possibility. Just like the Divorce Forum and the New Beginnings indicate this site acknowledges that R isn’t the only path.
For some simply thinking or even suggesting a couple can reconcile is sacrilege. I guess that for those fanatics this site is heresy.

Just looking back on your posts. You say your relationship started going downhill 25 yrs ago. That was when she was diagnosed with cancer. Might the two be connected?

Some aspects of the change in our marriage are related to the cancer diagnosis. Without getting into too many details. Some aspects of the intimacy in our marriage ended shortly after the diagnosis but not as a result of me being rejected. I became aware of how much discomfort those aspects brought her. I ceased my overtures one night when she commented "too many surgeries". I was there for the surgeries and for all of the poking and prodding that goes with such a diagnosis. I understood then and I understand now.

The thing that is less clear is that all of the other aspects of intimacy as well as affection ended at about the same time.

After reading every post on your site two things stands out…and I think they are the only ones you need to think about. Are you happy, contented, in your marriage? Have you ever been? Do you want the next possible 30 years to be the way they are today? If not you need to ask, point blank, if this is all you are going to get from her. If it is you decide. We can’t, and shouldn’t. We only want you to have a future that you look forward to.

Please take care of yourself. Stress can cause a myriad of issues.

Biggers cooments are well put

. I don’t necessarily see infidelity as we usually define it on this site. Without knowing more about the relationship between W and BIL (then "only" second cousin) then it is possible for them to have gone on to have a "normal" non-romantic and non-emotional (beyond close family) relationship..

The thing that drove me here was not the affair or the contents of the letters. It was her extremely defensive reaction to their discovery in light of the fact that it occurred 55 years ago. Also her harsh reaction to my simple requests for clarity. Because of this I believe the romantic relationship was and still is in the background of the sibling relationship.

. What other letters were in that box? I find it... well... strange... that sexually charged letters between 18-year-old W (although not wife at the time) and a 16 year old boy – second cousin, and so close that he’s adopted 50 years later – are being stored and have sort-of prime-of-place at the top of a box. Since they didn’t approve of the relationship then why did they keep them for all these years? Why at the top? The general content/gist of the other letters might offer some clue.

The fact that the letters existed is one of the most baffling aspects of this whole mess. BIL kept the letters. The box was labeled with BIL’s name in mother’s handwriting. Father put the box in the attic. I think mother read the letters but it could have been either parent. Wife didn’t know the letters were kept. During our first conversation wife said "I can’t believe mom kept the letters". I ask her why mom would and she replied " I don’t know" and looked away. I found the phraseology and the lack of eye contact odd but did not pursue in the heat of the discussion.

There were a lot of letters in the box. I read the 4 on top. I thumbed through a dozen or so more looking for addresses and post marks I could read. No postmarks. All of the letters were from wife at college address and to him at home. I wished a thousand times I had kept and read the letters. She was at college for 3 semesters that is a lot of letters in that period of time. I only touched about a third of them.

. If this relationship was significant enough for them to store the letters – why adopt him?

Another puzzle. Their mother pushed the adoption. Wife was for it, other sister didn’t care one way or another. BIL was flattered and agreed but cool on the idea. During a visit to father two weeks ago discussion came around BIL’s lack of contact over the past 4 months. Father commented that sister recently told him that mother pushed the adoption. Father said that he didn’t understand why it was so important since he was in the will anyway. Wife sad BIL wanted the adoption. I viewed that as an unnecessary half truth but I am hyper-vigilant about such things these days.

. On this site we often talk about how the WS rewrites marital history. I’m wondering if you might be doing that too... even as a BS.

I am very aware of this and have tried hard to avoid this although it is a very human tendency. I am operating in a total vacuum in this area an hope I am not guilty of this.

Yet you also talk about traveling the country together, visiting grandkids, motorbikes... all in a positive tone. Maybe you did all that in the first 20 years, but this indicates that there were some positives in the marriage.
Then the drive all that way with her for her cancer treatment. Indicates care..

It has not been all bad. The motorcycle travel was from 1995 to 2016. And it was good. As far as the drive to MD Andersen that has never crossed my mind as a burden or an imposition. It is just what we do. I care about that and a lot more. The problem is that I have come to believe that she does not feel that way about me and never has. I began to feel isolated years ago but thought it was just me. Her reaction to the letters, the refusal to provide any kind of clarity and her complete lack of empathy or even cursory consideration for my feelings tells me that I am nothing more than a utility and our relationship nothing more than maintenance. The affair and contents of the letters only serve as a possible reason why.

I plan to make one last bid for some sort of communication from the only woman I have ever loved. If that is not positive I am already starting to make other plans. I will wait until after Christmas and partial recovery from my upcoming shoulder surgery to implement those plans. I can no longer continue to bleed.