SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I'm five years in and feel healed from the A. It just doesn't really come up and doesn't plague my thoughts anymore. My marriage issues are generally run of the mill issues you get as you reach your 40s. If anything, I have fewer problems than most people. We are doing well financially and secure in our jobs. The kids are doing good in school (though could be doing better) and are engaged in their extra-curriculars. Both of us are in good health.

Unfortunately, I do feel like I'm losing my empathy or recognition of the difficulty of the early stage of other people's A's. I think I've become much shorter and likely to deliver 2x4's to newly betrayed or others here that are struggling where I used to at least get in and say "this is hard, it takes a long time, and it's normal to waffle". That's probably a little bit of an unfair change in my posting pattern, and I'm not sure it's been as helpful. It's sort of a shame because of how much this site helped me through my own shit. I did appreciate the 2x4's but I especially benefited from some of the longer more thoughtful posts as well. It's the like further away I get from DDay the more I wish I could inject clarity of thought and action where it basically impossible to do so.

I can't say I know what I want out of this thread, but figured I should at least post a five year update.

I think the 2x4s and associated straight to the point clarity posts are needed. Some of them don’t help when the poster is still in shock and reeling from the discovery, but I think most who actively post here during their ordeal reread their threads quite frequently. Those 2x4s become more meaningful to them as their own clarity increases.

Congrats on getting to 5 years, we joined at the same time so I totally get what you are saying. You are saying what I have been feeling lately, I tend to read JFO "with are you f-ing kidding me?". It's not that I forgot how painful it was 5 years ago, I just don't like going back there at times. I tend to stay in General comment in threads about triggers or things that come after all the "dirty work", dealing with the aftermath of the A and navigating the healing journey.

Thank you for all you've done for me in these 5 years, I wish you continued healing

Your post brings to mind the movie "Thelma & Louise"

The two start out intending to have some fun and a few things get out of hand and next thing they are "in it" and working to escape the pickle into which they find themselves.

Near the end, a LEO is trying to talk some sense into them and for them to "come clean" aka surrender.

Instead, the two keep on running - over the cliff. (wonder how the movie makers got a Park service to permit that?)

So it is with the newly minted BS or WS.

What started (In many cases) as just a bit of fun for feels-good activity escalates into something worse.

The experienced folks here see the path they are on and warn them of certain death if they proceed on that path.

And the afflicted poster just keeps on the wrong path -

Hence, the 2x4 posts start.

I can't edit the image - instead of "stupid" - substitute "ignorant" or "in-experienced"

[This message edited by Hippo16 at 8:29 PM, Wednesday, December 11th]

I’m 10 years out and have found myself struggling again recently. I think I had an imaginary benchmark in my mind of where I would be 10 years down the road and I’m just not there. I still struggle. Daily sometimes. It’s "affair season" right now, which is always hard, but I’m angry again. Angry that 10 years later, I’m still here. And menopause isn’t helping the situation either.

I started therapy again today for the 4th time. We’re going back to marriage counseling too. I’m tired of carrying this with me and I have to find a way to resolve it as best I can. I don’t want to be like this for the rest of my life. Maybe we (mostly I) really can’t get past it.

I’m sad today 😞.

Interesting that I am now at a timeframe similar to what you were when I first started.

I still feel the empathy for the newly betrayed strongly. I’m out of the confusion but I remember it vividly. But it seems like a natural progression, to see the same stories playing out over and over again and feeling like you are watching a shitty remake of Groundhogs Day.

You certainly paid it forward to me, good sir.

I’m happy for you and your rebuilt life and marriage. I hope it continues to grow in joy and goodness.

[This message edited by InkHulk at 11:55 PM, Wednesday, December 11th]

Thank you for the update. I always appreciate hearing where people are at certain milestones.

When did you first feel like you were fully healed? Would your three or four year update have been pretty similar?

I don’t feel totally healed yet, but I’m getting there I think. Even at four+ years out I still feel a lot of sympathy for the confusion and muddle of the newly betrayed. I tend to avoid JFO because it’s painful and I want my focus to be more positive, not because my instinct is to deliver a 2x4. Obviously there are some people who need a good shaking (metaphorically), but often I just feel sorry for people. Probably a mix of empathy and gentleness and 2x4s is good.

For a while I kind of beat myself up for not acting more decisively or thinking more clearly in the early months after DDay, but I’ve forgiven myself, because at the end of the day I was doing my best, I was acting in good faith toward myself and my kids and even my unfaithful husband, and I did eventually get where I needed to be.

At 5 years out, I pretty much couldn't even read JFO, much less post there.

When I was new here, I relied on members who were on my timeline to show me the variety of responses. That helped me identify where I was probably going through a standard phase and where I was an outlier - and being an outlier might have signaled a problem that I had to solve.

I relied on old-timers - and in 2011-2012, I couldn't imagine being 5 years out - to show me how I might feel in the future.

So thank you for sharing.

I'm very glad you healed.

I think the 2x4s and associated straight to the point clarity posts are needed. Some of them don’t help when the poster is still in shock and reeling from the discovery, but I think most who actively post here during their ordeal reread their threads quite frequently. Those 2x4s become more meaningful to them as their own clarity increases.

Thanks for this perspective. I think I had a similar experience myself on a few comments.

Congrats on getting to 5 years, we joined at the same time so I totally get what you are saying. You are saying what I have been feeling lately, I tend to read JFO "with are you f-ing kidding me?". It's not that I forgot how painful it was 5 years ago, I just don't like going back there at times.

JFO really is pretty brutal, but they also need the most help.

The experienced folks here see the path they are on and warn them of certain death if they proceed on that path.

There really is a pattern. Maybe it's worth making a "Betrayed Spouse's Mistake Handbook". There is that thread about this. Might be worth summarizing.

I’m 10 years out and have found myself struggling again recently. I think I had an imaginary benchmark in my mind of where I would be 10 years down the road and I’m just not there. I still struggle. Daily sometimes.

I'm sorry you are still having daily struggles. We do all heal at our own rate and have different betrayals to work through. I think about how hard it was for me with my relatively minor league betrayal, and it's got to be much harder for those that experienced a deeper betrayal. I don't know what your WS has done, but especially further out Janis Spring's "How Can I Forgive You" is a really good read. Specifically the concept of "transference of vigilance".

Interesting that I am now at a timeframe similar to what you were when I first started.

I still feel the empathy for the newly betrayed strongly. I’m out of the confusion but I remember it vividly. But it seems like a natural progression, to see the same stories playing out over and over again and feeling like you are watching a shitty remake of Groundhogs Day.

You certainly paid it forward to me, good sir.

I’m happy for you and your rebuilt life and marriage. I hope it continues to grow in joy and goodness.

Ink, I think you are one of the posters I connected with in a pretty meaningful way. I was genuinely pulling for you and your (STB?) XWW. I wish you had been dealt a better hand (maybe just true for anyone here ).

Thank you for the update. I always appreciate hearing where people are at certain milestones.

When did you first feel like you were fully healed? Would your three or four year update have been pretty similar?

Maybe a little after 4 years. My 3 year update I wrote a big update saying I basically felt reconciled (and got my post immortalized in the healing library). Then at 4 years, I gave a short update that if I recall correctly, I think at the time I was still using "happy" and "reconciled" instead of "happily reconciled" or "happily married". I can say I'm "happily married" now and that was sometime a little after 4 years. Marriage 2.0 of course. So perhaps my definition of "happily married" has also shifted from my previous version.

When I was new here, I relied on members who were on my timeline to show me the variety of responses. That helped me identify where I was probably going through a standard phase and where I was an outlier - and being an outlier might have signaled a problem that I had to solve.

I relied on old-timers - and in 2011-2012, I couldn't imagine being 5 years out - to show me how I might feel in the future.

Sisoon, I appreciate your perspective and you have always been a steady hand on this site since I arrived. Certainly you tend to provide the sort of thoughtful responses I aim to contribute here.

[This message edited by This0is0Fine at 5:48 PM, Thursday, December 12th]

Hi TIF
Always good to hear an update from you. I think you remember me and the kind of questions I ask and apologize in advance if as usual they are too probing. But I do care about you and want to ensure you have a happy life together with your wife for the decades to come.

I know you are conversing mostly here about your feelings towards new BS's in crisis. But I want to focus a few minutes on this:

My marriage issues are generally run of the mill issues you get as you reach your 40s.

Of course every relationship, whether it has been touched by infidelity or not will have these issues to work thru. But what I'd like to understand and ensure, is that your life and relationship with your wife has not reverted back to 2019 interactions.

Do you feel it is different now than back then? Is the environment surrounding your marriage no longer conducive to her looking for emotion and romance outside your relationship?

In the past you wrote about the requirements and boundaries you set down in order to stay and she eventually agreed to them. But has she taken ownership of these things and run with them? Has she let them slide over the years? It took a long while to remove the AP from her life even after she claimed they were no longer in a relationship. How does she view that period now and does she see how harmful it was to you? Does she care.

And going forward have you put communication checkpoints into place to discuss all this and ensure that neither of you is showing behavior that could be harmful to the other?

And finally, how do you and she relate to the friends and relatives that had their own infidelity exposed by you. Are they all grateful to you for what you did? Resentful? Do the women who cheated look back on what they did fondly or with great humility and distaste?

My goal here is to ensure that rug sweeping is not the basis of your good feelings. I want you to be secure in your relationship and hope she can get to that point too.

Of course as always you can tell me to pound salt. But I'm hoping you realize after 5 years here that these types of exercises in self analysis with your spouse can ensure authenticity in what you have built together.

I'm a firm believer in the work never ending from either partner in order to truly reconcile and rebuild and that takes great desire from both to do that together.

Hi TIF
Always good to hear an update from you. I think you remember me and the kind of questions I ask and apologize in advance if as usual they are too probing. But I do care about you and want to ensure you have a happy life together with your wife for the decades to come.

Thanks Stevesn, and honestly, I think these types of questions are quite helpful (as many of your questions have been throughout my journey).

I know you are conversing mostly here about your feelings towards new BS's in crisis. But I want to focus a few minutes on this:

My marriage issues are generally run of the mill issues you get as you reach your 40s.

Of course every relationship, whether it has been touched by infidelity or not will have these issues to work thru. But what I'd like to understand and ensure, is that your life and relationship with your wife has not reverted back to 2019 interactions.

Do you feel it is different now than back then? Is the environment surrounding your marriage no longer conducive to her looking for emotion and romance outside your relationship?

So much has changed in general, that I do feel different than I did back then. I have worked on my own flaws in terms of maybe being too emotionally cold or distant, and she of course has done a lot of work to get rid of her own block of sharing her pain with me which was a key breakthrough in our R. So I think we have a number of tools for both of us where (I'm not accepting blame or shifting it to me) I don't hold emotional distance and she doesn't think of making that decision again when she feels I don't see her or understand what she is feeling.

In the past you wrote about the requirements and boundaries you set down in order to stay and she eventually agreed to them. But has she taken ownership of these things and run with them? Has she let them slide over the years? It took a long while to remove the AP from her life even after she claimed they were no longer in a relationship. How does she view that period now and does she see how harmful it was to you? Does she care.

She has taken complete ownership at this point. When she brings it up, she apologizes and said it was an awful thing for her to do. It doesn't come up often though. She has no broken NC and has not continued her friendship with AP's friend. When she does anything (girls trip, work party, you pick) that might be a potential trigger, she brings it up directly and makes extra sure I'm OK with it. That's why I often talk about the importance of transference of vigilance. This is a consistent behavior she has shown for years now.

She views her infidelity negatively now. She doesn't pine for AP. She is contrite.

And going forward have you put communication checkpoints into place to discuss all this and ensure that neither of you is showing behavior that could be harmful to the other?

Going along the "more run of the mill" issues, we are good at communicating and still use the Gottman tools for addressing our issues. We turn toward each other and do not build up secret resentments.

And finally, how do you and she relate to the friends and relatives that had their own infidelity exposed by you. Are they all grateful to you for what you did? Resentful? Do the women who cheated look back on what they did fondly or with great humility and distaste?

I don't know if I posted the latest story. My wife's friend (yet another) had a ONS, and my wife convinced her to tell her husband. The only one that I'm in regular contact with is grateful. I don't know how SIL feels, but I don't think she is resentful. None of them have ex-communicated me or my wife. They are all still married, but not all of them have really "reconciled". R is sometimes for Rugsweeping, but that isn't my battle to fight.

My goal here is to ensure that rug sweeping is not the basis of your good feelings. I want you to be secure in your relationship and hope she can get to that point too.

This is an interesting turn of phrase, because I feel *safe* in my relationship, but I have sort of given up on my relationship being *secure*. I'm always prepared for divorce. So I don't have to rely on my M remaining solvent to be secure in life.

Of course as always you can tell me to pound salt. But I'm hoping you realize after 5 years here that these types of exercises in self analysis with your spouse can ensure authenticity in what you have built together.

I'm a firm believer in the work never ending from either partner in order to truly reconcile and rebuild and that takes great desire from both to do that together.

I guess this might be a different strokes thing. I do agree reconciliation is a constant ongoing process. And that at any given moment you have to want it to work to make it work. I'm OK with understanding that this desire could fail at any moment on either side of the relationship. I understand that living with this type of uncertainty isn't for everyone but it works in Marriage 2.0 for me.

I'm always prepared for divorce. So I don't have to rely on my M remaining solvent to be secure in life.

This is such a good point, No amount of healing can bring back absolute trust. We can be completely healed and even "forgive" our spouse, be we will always remember what they were capable of.

A pilot does not expect the plane to crash, but they know they are capable of it. They train, plan and rehearse what happens if something does go wrong. You have to be willing to land in the river if it comes to that.

Good to hear TIF. Thanks for responding and have great holidays!!!

@TiF

Hey buddy. Long time no speak. Not been here in a while but came back to post my own 5 year update.

Glad you’re doing well. Turns out everyone was right I guess. Time heals.

TD