SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

On another thread, BluerThanBlue wrote, "there’s going to come a time when your wife will stop asking you asking questions, won’t bother calling you out on your lies, manipulation, and obfuscation, and simply not care enough to fight with you anymore.

If or when that day comes, your marriage is over."

This hit me like a truck because this is where I am today. I am so burned out and exhausted from years of trying to reconnect and repair, and even months after dday, my WS still couldn't do it. Even now, when he claims to want R so badly, when he tells me constantly that he loves me and he's sad about the walls I've put up, he still doesn't want to go back to MC (he thinks we can figure it out on our own but he says he will go if I request it). He just doesn't get it, and I can no longer muster up the energy to try. It's death by a thousand paper cuts.

I know I'm waiting for 3 more years (until our kid is 18) no matter what, but I decided to keep the door open for R as a real possibility in the interval. As time goes on, though, it's becoming increasingly clear to me that *I* have nothing left to give to this marriage. I'm tired of letting his behavior bother me. I'm tired of arguing with him or talking about his affairs or asking him to do things differently. I don't *want* to care anymore because I don't want to keep living in pain, so I'm teaching myself to stop caring. I keep telling myself that it doesn't matter what he does. He has his life to live, and I have mine. I don't need to let his actions affect me anymore. That is a choice I have.

In my other recent thread (about the wedding), a few people encouraged me to speak openly to my WS about my feelings. The quote from BluerThanBlue captures why I didn't want to. I have no faith that such a discussion will lead to anything positive or constructive, and I'm too tired/dead inside to bother trying.

Does this really mean it's over? I guess so, in a romantic sense. We still have our lives entangled in many ways - kid, finances, household, family and friends. We are still legally married. I'm okay with us being friendly (we rarely have physical intimacy anymore anyway). But in terms of what our marriage used to mean to me, yeah, I have to say it's dead as a rock.

The opposite of love isn't hate - it's indifference. I think once you truly check out - emotionally and mentally, that's probably it. Your ability/willingness/motivation to fight for the relationship is gone.

I know I'm waiting for 3 more years (until our kid is 18) no matter what

I don't know your story or you life or reasons for waiting and I know you weren't seeking advice on this, but as someone whose father waited until I was 19 to leave (my sibling was 15), I don't actually know that being a few years older made it any easier for me to be "grown and gone" to deal with/cope with the dissolution of my parents marriage and my family unit.

This always hits me when I hear the Chris Stapleton/Carly Pierce duet.."We Don't Even Fight Anymore" it's a gut punch and it makes it even more true even though it's hard for BS to believe it. We actually want our WS to be completely indifferent to the AP too. It's like we always want the hate directed there but everyone here is always like indifference is where it's at with either WS and AP or WS and BS. If they are indifferent with either pair it's over.

emergent, I don't know if it will be emotionally any easier for our kid, but from a practical standpoint, I think it will be easier for all of us because there won't be shared custody. Splitting households (or nesting) right now would not be good for us for a variety of reasons. Once she is 18 and hopefully off to college, it should be less of an issue (I hope) since she'll be living on/near campus most of the time, and also at that point, she can legally choose where to spend her time.

There is still a small part of me that's willing to stay in the marriage if things improve enough before then. I just feel like that part keeps shrinking instead of growing, which is what you'd hope.

My wife never asks me how I’m doing any more. She said she was tired of having to be the one to bring it up. (Whatever). I’ve learned that I am responsible for my own emotional needs, and I will take care of those needs without her input. She seems to want to live happily ever after without doing the work and honestly, I’m just done trying to get her to see the light. I have accepted who she is, and that she likely will never change, thus I will likely always have to worry about her straying if times get tough again. I refuse to live that way so does that mean I too am done. Maybe. I’ll leave the door open if she ever wants to step up and do her work, but I am moving on to more fun things that I can do to put myself in a happier place and a lot of those things don’t include her.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 9:21 PM, Tuesday, July 9th]

Does this really mean it's over? I guess so, in a romantic sense.

Let’s put into perspective where people in this situation find themselves. You are both intimately betrayed and now in an emotionally dead relationship. Pre-A, can you even remotely imagine yourself being in such a terrible situation? Can you imagine telling a friend or God forbid a child to stay in such a hellish purgatory?

The thing that broke me free of my incredibly deep fear of divorce was to gain another fear of the soul death that indefinitely living in infidelity brings. There are just too many stories here of unmitigated heartache stretching over decades if it’s not handled properly. I learned to fear that, and I remembered my pre d-day convictions that cheating was a fucking deal breaker and I am getting out of Dodge. Life is too short and too beautiful to let someone suck you dry.

Copingmybest, perhaps you are done too. I'm curious why you are staying with her if this is how you feel? (No judgement, whatever the reason, and of course you don't have to answer).

You are both intimately betrayed and now in an emotionally dead relationship. Pre-A, can you even remotely imagine yourself being in such a terrible situation? Can you imagine telling a friend or God forbid a child to stay in such a hellish purgatory?

InkHulk, I've seen here how hard you tried to hold on, and I hear you. I'm not sure what you mean by both of us being intimately betrayed, but the emotional death was first his doing, and now the table have turned (he claims to be in love with me again; I am empty of that feeling). That's why I've given myself a timer. I'm pretty sure I'll be divorcing after our child turns 18. Miracles can happen, I suppose, and maybe I will change my mind in 3 years, but mounting evidence says otherwise.

Sometimes it is soul-crushing, but other times, it's okay. I'm nearly 50, disabled, and probably going to live with my parents when this is over. I don't really see a romantic future for myself, so I can make peace with the status quo for now. The only thing that occasionally bothers me besides the grief and loss is the lack of physical intimacy, but every once in a while, WS gets in the mood, so I enjoy it when I can get it.

Pre-A is such a sad thing to think about. His first time cheating was 10 years ago. And no, of course I thought he could never do such a thing. Heck, I didn't think he was able to lie so well. It's been illuminating (in the way of turning a light on and seeing a bunch of scurrying roaches) to discover who I'm really married to.

InkHulk, I've seen here how hard you tried to hold on, and I hear you.

I did, and I’m in a different head space now, but I understand and don’t want to come across as pushy or judgmental.

I'm not sure what you mean by both of us being intimately betrayed

Sorry, I used confusing language. I meant that you, OP, are experiencing both intimate betrayal AND, on top of that horror, an emotionally dead relationship. It’s a double whammy that you don’t deserve and would seem unthinkable to anyone in a remotely healthy relationship. That is what I meant, sorry for coming across as accusing you of betraying.

All of us have to figure out our paths. If staying until your child turns 18 is what seems right to you, so be it. I agree with emergent’s point that it’s not obvious that that is beneficial to the child. My older brother was 18 as my parent’s marriage ended and he seems to have the worst chronic effects in my sibling group. Just an N=1 observation, just maybe asking you to examine your assumptions about it.

Best wishes.

I'm curious why you are staying with her if this is how you feel?

NTFTM, I’m still staying because she has said she would start online therapy after she gets her heart condition corrected. She needs an ablation for a rhythm issue. While my therapist keeps telling me there’s no reason she couldn’t have started therapy weeks ago while waiting on the procedure, and I agree, I gave her yet another grace period, but once she gets her heart corrected then she either has to go all in or I’m going all out. That being said, I expect she’ll come up with another excuse to avoid therapy. My IC thinks she is unable to do therapy and have to come to grips with her problems, but if she wants a life moving forward with me then that is precisely what she’ll have to do.

[This message edited by Copingmybest at 2:59 PM, Wednesday, July 10th]

Coping, that is really good of you to give her time to take care of her health first. I hope she comes through and does IC and changes for the better after her surgery.

InkHulk, thanks for the clarification. That makes a lot more sense (both=two types of trauma). As regards your brother, I'm not staying just for the kid's sake. Her mental health is a factor, but it's not the only one. Your anecdata tracks with others I've spoken to - divorce is never easy on a kid, not at 12 nor at 25. I think the only time it's "easier" for them is when they are too young to understand and remember (less the 3 or 4 years old).

In my case, it's also financial, and I was advised by a lawyer to consider staying married until I can move somewhere more affordable and/or WS is more gainfully employed. Our situation is complicated because I'm unemployable due to my disability, and WS is currently unemployed because his startup crashed. He also wasn't earning as much as usual last year due to lack of funding.

I really don't want to disrupt high school for our child (by moving away), especially after all the school instability she dealt with during the pandemic and her new diagnoses. She has a good therapist and is starting to improve her mental health. I also personally don't want to deal with joint custody. The way I feel right now, WS could start another affair, and I would continue to cohabitate and coparent until she graduates/turns 18. He and I do okay in each other's company. We sleep in separate rooms (I can't climb stairs, and our formerly joint room is upstairs; that he never moved downstairs to be with me was another nail in the coffin). I don't hate him, and I wish him well. I feel like I'm in arranged marriage with him (i.e. a practical partnership), but that's seems less and less like a problem to me.

Am I deluding myself? Maybe. Sometimes the pain and grief swell up, especially when something reminds me of what I've lost, and it's compounded by the life-changing disability that happened during his affair, so the two are inextricably linked in my head. But with lots of IC, I'm starting to find joy again. I've always been an introvert and fairly happy on my own, so I'm rediscovering how to separate WS's emotions and actions from my own. Every so often something triggers me, and I come here and elsewhere to vent my frustrations and reflect on my current state of mind. I really appreciate everyone here at SI - so many thoughtful, articulate, and compassionate people. You have my gratitude.

That is all such a heavy burden. You have my great admiration for seeking your joy in it and putting your child’s well-being so much weight.

NTFTM, for your own peace of mind, I think it's worth having one last "Come to Jesus" conversation with your WH.

Tell him that you're done with arguing about the affair, you're no longer pulling teeth to get your needs met, and you're done trying to tell him what he should or shouldn't do to save the marriage.

If he is serious when he says that he loves you and wants to stay together, then he needs to demonstrate "creative effort" (as InkHulk put it). So instead of relying on you for guidance (and shooting down any suggestions he doesn't like) he does his own homework and implements his own strategies for rebuilding trust and reestablishing your connection. The key word here is "proactive." Not just words, but action.

And that's where you leave it.

In the meantime, you start planning for what your life as if your marriage will be over in 3 years. You detach and you put the affair far behind you. He will either realize that he's on borrowed time and take drastic action to keep you... or, after enough time has passed, he will assume that you've just gotten over it and be absolutely stunned when you actually pull the plug.

If the latter is true, don't be surprised if you hear him utter the phrase, "But I thought things were better!"

InkHulk, thank you.

BTB, your advice is wise, and I think you for it. Unfortunately, I've already danced this dance. I've been telling WS he needs to be more proactive since DDay1. I had a "Come to Jesus" conversation with him last August, which is what prompted him to take the Affair Recovery class for Waywards, which then led to DDay4 (more like D-week) and the admission of an earlier AP from 10 years ago. I think he finally unburdened his conscience then, but being proactive and consistent (two things our MC emphasized) is not his strong suit. He did all the required work for the class, but nothing since except monthly IC, which he recently said he will likely quit because he's "getting nothing out of it."

So this is why I have hit the wall hard this time. I've tried to get through to him for years, now, starting a few months after his LTA began in 2020. If a person can't change after 4.5 years and multiple "Come to Jesus" talks, MC, IC, and Group therapy, I think it's highly unlikely to ever happen.

I won't be surprised if he's crushed when I serve papers. I've already heard "But I thought things were better!" a few times, usually after I stopped bringing up my unhappiness and just went on about my life for a while. My WS seems to think that loving feelings are all that matter, even though I have explicitly told him that I care more about his actions than his feelings toward me. I have also told him (fairly recently) that I have no romantic/"in love" feelings toward him, but that I still love him in a familial way, so if he's under any delusions about my state of mind, that's on him. He says he hopes I will feel those things again, but what is he doing to spark those feelings? Not much other than being a basically decent human being (i.e. not cheating or lying or keeping secrets).

In the meantime, you start planning for what your life as if your marriage will be over in 3 years. You detach and you put the affair far behind you.

This is exactly what I am practicing now. I have started to think about my next steps in 3 years, and I have a plan (I'm a planner by nature). Sometimes the yearning to be free is so strong, I can hardly stand it, but I remind myself of the good reasons I am staying. I'm also practicing detachment. It's not easy, but I think I'm getting closer day by day.

I'm so happy to hear your update! Actions matter to me also. Feelings, meh.

If you are starting to plan your life now, that's great. I would start with the wedding. You are probably not going to have any interaction with SIL in the future if she's ok with your WH being an officiant knowing what he's done. Just say no to attending the wedding. You don't need a reason. It's ok. You can tell your daughter you choose not to attend without saying why. That's your prerogative. Why not?

If you're going to be staying with your parents in 3 years, why not spend a few days/nights a week with them if they live close by? You can cook meals or help out or just hang out. Your daughter can come with you or not.

You can make new friends and start old hobbies or new ones. You could spend time at places you prefer a few days a week. Doors are opening my friend.

Aw, thank you, Kitchen! I have been doing more of those things, as and when I'm able (I'm not able to do much anymore for health reasons). I do see my parents weekly and talk to them regularly. I'm an only child, and I've been fortunate to have a good relationship with both of them. Sadly they help me more than I can help them, but we enjoy each other's company.

I've also been reconnecting with old friends via video calls, since that's become such a thing now, and filling my cup on my own. I used to try to do as much as possible with WS, but he pulled away a lot during his LTA, and I got used to relying on myself. For a while after dday, I tried to restore the old way, but between my poor health and our new habits, it didn't work, so I've accepted that this is how it's going to be. There's still pain/grief when something reminds me of these changes, so I'm pretty sure I'll be happier when I can remove those triggers from my life.