SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

If you did not make the final call to D, you'd be in for a life of your WW shamelessly making "affordable mistakes" and being "a bit more forthcoming than is desirable for a married woman". I cannot imagine THAT is what God truly wanted for you.

You’re right man. I just have to man up and face it. We are never ever getting back together.

I see what you did there!

ETA: I am glad to hear that what I said helped, that you are realizing that you had NO CHOICE BUT TO D...

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:02 PM, Saturday, June 22nd]

I am glad to hear that what I said helped,

It did, the observation that how we describe our internal experience has a feedback loop that influences it, that was insightful and helpful, I first encountered that wisdom nugget reading Brené Brown.

that you are realizing that you had NO CHOICE BUT TO D...

Honest question: where do statements like this come from in you? By now, you must know they don’t help you get your message across to me, while you do have other methods that have worked. Genuinely, do you feel like you have processed your own betrayal trauma? Please trust that comes from a place of wanting your good, same as I know you want mine.

Well, yes taken literally, what I said was incorrect. You actually don't really "HAVE TO D" as I wrote. No one is going to come and throw you in the gulag if you do otherwise. However, the choice as I am seeing it is either to D, or to stay in a marriage to a woman who seems unwilling (not just unable but actually unwilling to honor you as her husband. The latter choice however, seems to me to be a choice worse than death.

Yes, but clearly you know both sides of my conflicted heart, and that I am very far down the path to acting. Just not sure where this comes from.

Also…..

1. It is an imprecise shorthand to express that you have one choice that is far far less bad than the others.

2. Yes I know you are extremely conflicted. Even after all your STBXWW has done--and all she has failed to do, you still seem to feel guilty for being the one for pulling the final trigger, like not only are your kids' lives going to be changed but maybe also that you are letting down God or something. I suppose language such as "have no choice" is to absolve you of some of the pressure you seem to be putting on yourself.

I am seeing now that language such as "have no choice" or "what you need to do" does sound controlling. So moving forward I'll be a lot more careful about that.

My insensitive Braveheart gif was in reference to the question of whether you feel you have processed your own betrayal trauma. No pressure, you don’t have to answer, but from this end it appears like those statements are coming from a place of unresolved pain inside you. Which, you know, makes sense, this shit is awful. And long lasting.

I admire your self reflection above. I admire your passion and loyalty. I admire your mind, you have a lot of wisdom on this topic. You are good people.

I’ve never liked the term "have no choice" it’s simply an impossible concept. There is always a choice. Not taking any action when given a decision is still choice.

Ink, maybe to help you with the process and pain of going through a D, it’s a reframe. Instead of no choice but to, consider It is the best decision you can make for yourself and your kids, even stbx with the information you have available to you now.

Yes you are the one who made it, and you have to carry the burden of making that decision, regardless of the just or injustice you have found yourself in. It sucks, and the injustice of an affair and all of the 2nd and 3rd order effects are brutal.

You will find yourself wavering, will second guess and wonder if it’s really the right move. IMO, with stbx last interaction with the mechanic, it is the best because she isn’t on the same page as you and doesn’t sound like she ever will. You can’t do anything about it, other then decide what you want.

Didn’t Tanner volunteer to make "Fuck the Waffle" t-shirts for everyone a few threads back?

Yeah, I’m not going to get thru this in a straight line. And I am most certainly making conscious choices here, and they are genuinely of the gravity of self-amputating. I don’t need to meditate daily on that picture, but it’s real. I feel it, others relate, it’s authentic.

I’ve written my "tell the kids" script. It is happening, it’s just a horror.

Yeah, it is a horror. I had my script ready as well, still do.

Self amputation is a good metaphor for deconstruction of a 20 year relationship. I’m sorry friend, nothing is easy about it. I hope for your sake your STBXW will at least be kind enough to not drag you through the mud.

I saw this with kindness, keep your guard up, D can bring out the worst in people, and suddenly things you thought were agreed on are now major conflicts.

Maybe I should make clear that my urinating-on-the-couch-while-stripping example is NOT based on personal experience...

Cognitive dissonance.... THAT’S WHAT IT’S CALLED!!!

Having been here for so long I have shared some stories more than once. As a young rookie police officer my veteran mentor pointed something interesting out to me: How no matter what infraction or crime we stopped someone for, they would explain and justify their actions.
Like the people caught speeding – they would claim they only were following the flow of traffic, everyone speeded, we should focus on "real" crime, the speedometer was off, they had a really important meeting...
People selling drugs – they only sold to those that wanted to use drugs, they had no other career option being from THAT part of town.
Burglars – since everyone was insured and got a new TV there wasn’t really a victim.
Rapists – she wanted it rough, she led me on, she never said no, she had a really expensive meal...

The most ridiculous one I heard was the driver who crashed into a food-truck... The truck had been at the same site on a semi-permanent basis for over a year yet the driver insisted that it HAD TO have been moved since yesterday. After all – he had been taking the same swerve every day for three months and NEVER hit the truck before. There was no way he was going to admit that maybe he was totally 100% to blame...
The most sickening one: The molester I escorted from court to his lengthy stay in jail who insisted all the time that the ten-year old boys had enjoyed the oral sex, and that his sexual orientation was at the same place socially and legally as homosexuality had been 50 years earlier and one day this would be recognized and accepted.

What I seldom (if ever) experienced was meeting those that simply raised their hand in recognition of their blame and accepting their accountability twice. Even those that had done more serious stuff – once they acknowledged their accountability, they made the amends to their lives to prevent a repeat.

I think this is why I am a staunch believer in redemption. I truly believe that people can have that wake-up moment where they realize the wrong of their actions and have a strong need to remove whatever made them think they could or should do what they did. But the key to that is to wholly acknowledge the totality of the blame.

In infidelity that means the WS has to fully accept accountability for their actions. Even if the betrayed spouse was sexually frigid, abusive, drank too much... whatever. Those are separate issues that need to be dealt with, but do not in any way justify infidelity as a consequence or solution to those issues.

Maybe I should make clear that my urinating-on-the-couch-while-stripping example is NOT based on personal experience...

Sure……

Cognitive dissonance.... THAT’S WHAT IT’S CALLED!!!

Not quite sure what you are going for here. Is this an epiphany or a scold? I can live with either, just want to resolve it.

I have heard you write your experience with criminal offenders before, but I think it’s a great illustration.

I am far more cynical when it comes to redemption. Can a leopard change his spots? Occasionally. But almost all the time...NO. And I think believing that a leopard cannot change his spots--at least until he shows a lot of effort that he is changing--is a safer way to operate.

I am far more cynical when it comes to redemption. Can a leopard change his spots? Occasionally. But almost all the time...NO. And I think believing that a leopard cannot change his spots--at least until he shows a lot of effort that he is changing--is a safer way to operate.

I hear that. And I think it’s universally true that each of us believes that we ourselves are capable of change. We judge ourselves based off our intentions while we judge others based off their actions. I personally would lose hope for myself if I looked at every other human around me as incapable of growth.

Also…..

[This message edited by InkHulk at 8:29 PM, Saturday, June 22nd]

I have such a wash of different and competing thoughts about your predicament that I find it hard to say anything useful. Tongue tied.

Let’s just say, I think I get how hard this must be for you and your family.

I do hear what you are saying, @InkHulk.I do believe people are capable of growth, but that we have to protect ourselves first.

None of us, certainly not myself, are perfect. If someone screws up and shows massive remorse, fine. But someone who seems incapable or unwilling of changing...damn

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 8:45 PM, Saturday, June 22nd]

Cool beans, we can come close enough to agreeing on that.

And I hope you might just consider the question of whether you might have some unresolved pain from being betrayed and if you think that might be true, think about ways of getting that out. I want good for you, too.

I have such a wash of different and competing thoughts about your predicament that I find it hard to say anything useful. Tongue tied.

I’ll just say I’d treasure any thoughts you’d have, but also just appreciate the camaraderie shown in this note.

@InkHulk, Thank you, Friend...