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General :
Red Flag or am I overthinking?

Topic is Sleeping.
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 lessthinking (original poster member #83887) posted at 3:23 PM on Saturday, April 6th, 2024

WH is open and provides free reign of GPS tracking, social media, phone, journals, etc. He has mentioned a handful of times both to me and IC and MC that he doesn't know what's "his" anymore. Explaining that he doesn't even know if his thoughts are his own anymore. This feels like a red flag to me. This is on the heels of our counseling session after discussing the fantasy story.
One of the texts I found 8 months ago read, "My spouse does not know all of this, I have a few things like this I don't share. It's my thing and it's fun." He was referring to talking about porn and masturbation to a female coworker. I feel like 8 months later him still referring to "not having anything that's just his" could be a red flag. Am I overthinking? I have my first session with APSATS in 2 weeks, and of course will discuss it.

We have discussed that obviously, his thoughts are his own and I can't do anything or know everything about that. Beyond just thinking I feel like anything intimate like this needs to be shared going forward. He is agreeing but I'm not sure he gets it. I also don't like that he is sad that he can't have this part of himself anymore. I guess it's grieving your secrets? Yuck.

Any help to validate or see this differently would be appreciated.

posts: 147   ·   registered: Sep. 19th, 2023   ·   location: West Coast
id 8832505
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HellFire ( member #59305) posted at 3:28 PM on Saturday, April 6th, 2024

He sounds resentful of the necessary process of healing the damage he's caused. Transparency and honesty are a must for true R. And he resents both.

But you are what you did
And I'll forget you, but I'll never forgive
The smallest man who ever lived..

posts: 6787   ·   registered: Jun. 20th, 2017   ·   location: The Midwest
id 8832507
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 3:53 PM on Saturday, April 6th, 2024

Does he still think sharing porn-fantasies with a coworker (irrespective of gender) is his "thing" and fun?

Look – Too often after d-day we think that we can control our spouse back to health. Like that you monitoring his presence and social media etc will hold him on the straight and narrow.
Sometimes it makes sense, especially in the early days. Sort of like having a recovering pothead do weekly drug-tests. But the time gained by doing this should be constructively used for the WS to understand his why’s and – generally wrong – reasoning.

Unless he’s working in the editorial department of "Dear Penthouse" he has no business sharing sexual content with coworkers.

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12563   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8832513
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hikingout ( member #59504) posted at 4:56 PM on Saturday, April 6th, 2024

Look – Too often after d-day we think that we can control our spouse back to health. Like that you monitoring his presence and social media etc will hold him on the straight and narrow.

This.

And in your situation it’s a catch 22.

After dday I agree that transparency is paramount from the ws. But they need to be self motivated and grow that trust organically. My husband had access to my stuff, and he could check what he wanted. He did it a few times and maybe even times I didn’t know about. There was nothing for him to find, so it wasn’t a point of focus for me. Truthfully outside of the period of time of my affair he knew how to get into my stuff, things were just an open book.

But when there is solid trust there isn’t any checking and when you aren’t hiding something there isn’t any concern.

The problem here is you checked and there was cause for concern. So that put you into hyper vigilance, because in some ways what just happened looks like a relapse. He feels that what you found is his private thoughts. He feels he is doing the work and these private thoughts are an improvement over what he was doing before.

But in reality, it’s not an improvement, it’s a curtailing of behavior. It’s holding a small flame that set the wildfire to begin with. Your husband was willing to see that the wildfire was out of control, but he wants the freedom to hold onto something here.

And it’s complicated to a certain degree. He has given up porn, but what he wrote was porn. He is fighting a battle to do the curtailing, rather than extinguishing the source. However, that source is connected to a part of life that should have healthy outlets because our sexuality is a gift when it’s not dysfunctional.

And then add his obsessive compulsive tendencies- and this is like adding locks to the doors he is trying to walk out of because the problem there is the more you try and restrict the thinking the more obsessive it actually becomes.

What he needs is to be able to quell that component, and find healthy sexual outlets to replace the ones he has grown a dependency to. The pressure he feels to just make it all stop is compounded both by his current inability and being watched. I am certain those components make this occupy his head most of the days every day and it’s eclipsing his ability to appreciate other things in his life that could be just his own- like healthy hobbies, personal accomplishments, etc.

And as for you, it leaves you holding the bag of trying to protect yourself while he mounts heaps of additional worry and pain.

Your husband is in a battle with his demons and you are in a battle with his demons. This is not leaving much room for either of you to have healthy, positive things in your lives. it is understandable that would feel restrictive to both of you.

So back to the catch 22- he is trying to limit his impulsive behaviors, and you are trying to trust him. But until he can get his OCD under control, and you can start feeling like there is appreciable change then this is a boot on both your necks.

I am not sure really how this paradigm moves forward. If he can get past the OCD, he still has a lot of issues with his executive functioning and the challenges of ADHD, which also contributes to poor impulse control. In order for him to have things that are just his, he is going to have to develop other habits that replace what he is currently doing. So I think you are right he is grieving, but it’s because he isn’t filling the absence of his old habits and he is trying so hard to white-knuckle in the mean time because he doesn’t want to lose the attachment he has to you.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:57 PM, Saturday, April 6th]

7 years of hard work - WS and BS - Reconciled

posts: 7479   ·   registered: Jul. 5th, 2017   ·   location: Arizona
id 8832524
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 lessthinking (original poster member #83887) posted at 6:09 PM on Saturday, April 6th, 2024

Such great feedback...

Bigger - No he doesn't see it that way now but all of the situations I've discovered (except the kissing) have required me to explain that they are problematic and crossing a boundary.

He didn't understand talking about porn and masturbation with a coworker was a problem until I explained it.
He didn't know flirtatious banter texting (if we were single we would date/maybe we should get lunch when I'm in town secretly) with a classmate was problematic until I explained it.
He rationalized I had probably kissed someone during our 30 years of marriage without telling him so he didn't need to tell me.
He didn't feel weird writing a fantasy story about a fictional coworker and keeping this story from me, AFTER disclosure, until I explained it to him. He still says he was just copying it mostly from a story online and this is where he feels his thoughts aren't even his own now.

hikingout - you are spot on and really should be a professional in this field if you are not already.

It always takes me explaining all of this for him to see and understand. He comes around very easily but just doesn't get to it on his own.

What he needs is to be able to quell that component, and find healthy sexual outlets to replace the ones he has grown a dependency to.


Since we are not intimate right now what are "healthy sexual outlets" in your opinion? I know this is his work but I'm honestly curious on your thoughts.

Look – Too often after d-day we think that we can control our spouse back to health. Like that you monitoring his presence and social media etc will hold him on the straight and narrow.


I don't want to do this. I'm not this person and hate who it's making me become.

posts: 147   ·   registered: Sep. 19th, 2023   ·   location: West Coast
id 8832535
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 lessthinking (original poster member #83887) posted at 6:10 PM on Saturday, April 6th, 2024

Triple posted by mistake, sorry! System crashed when I posted.

[This message edited by lessthinking at 2:59 AM, Monday, April 8th]

posts: 147   ·   registered: Sep. 19th, 2023   ·   location: West Coast
id 8832536
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 lessthinking (original poster member #83887) posted at 6:10 PM on Saturday, April 6th, 2024

Triple posted by mistake, sorry! System crashed when I posted.

[This message edited by lessthinking at 2:59 AM, Monday, April 8th]

posts: 147   ·   registered: Sep. 19th, 2023   ·   location: West Coast
id 8832537
Topic is Sleeping.
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