SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You need to first lock down your rights to your kids.

Understand she is in a fantasy world and not just when it comes to her and her AP. She has convinced herself into believing her post divorce relationship with you will be unicorns and rainbows. I agree she invited you over to the mutual friends home in part to normalize the situation. I suspect it was more of a test though. A test to see if the fantasy she built up about your post divorce relationship will be what she wants and needs it to be.

Everything you’ve posted leads me to believe she is singularly focused on the outcome she will experience. She appears to be willing to have you pay any price for her to get what she wants. One thing she really wants is for the shame of it all to go away. The shame she feels for doing what she’s done to you. It might not be top of mind for her, but it’s there. That’s why she seems hellbent on turning your coparenting relationship into something great. Hang out with old mutual friends, geek out on kid videos, and have it be a story book divorce. I’m not advocating showing her your pain or throwing the shame in her face. Keep the 180 going strong. Remember, nothing she proposes right now is for your benefit in any way.

Edit: the reality of how life will be during and after a divorce will be very different than her fantasy. Make sure to let that truth be apparent at every turn.

[This message edited by Legatus at 1:21 PM, Tuesday, April 9th]

You mention some concern about what others might think...
It’s a non-issue... You don’t compete in divorce or win in divorce. You just DO divorce.
It’s not as at the end there is a survey and the one that gets the most moral-points or popularity-points get to chose which vehicle they take out of it. Nor do you have to explain or justify your reasons for divorcing. That’s not saying you need to hide them, but rather that you don’t need others validation for your reasons.
Look – I get what your friends were trying to do, and I think you were 100% correct to not participate. But you will soon realize that some of your friends will lean towards her, some will lean towards you, some will simply slip away. It’s not because they condone her actions or think you were a bad husband. It’s more based on which of you was the focal point of the friendship and what the friendship was based on.
Like... Jane her friend from college and her husband Jack – who is a great guy you get well along with and a good golfer – might stop inviting you over. You could still call Jack if you need a partner for golf, and you two will be amicable enough. But the days of Saturday dinner and combined date-nights are over. Same with friends who are friends because they want couple-friends. Jack – your best friend – will probably say hi if he meets your ex at the mall. Maybe even be introduced to her new boyfriend. But he won’t be inviting them to the big annual party or expect you to be there with the new Mrs Alphabet along with your ex who might then be Mrs. OM.
For the vast majority of those you know your marriage is gossip, a few stories and that’s it. Next politician caught snorting coke or with his privates in someone’s privates and you and your divorce are gossip history.

A lot of the suggestions kindly and generously offered focus on anger.
I suggest you focus on determination rather than anger.
If you can then take the attitude as if you were negotiating the end of a business contract. You want to be clear on your rights, what to expect, what demands you could make, what could enhance your negotiating status, what procedures and options you have and where the realistic outcome might be.
If your goal is to be controlled by anger and to cause pain rather than results... You will end up just as divorced, but maybe with a bit less money or a bit less than you could have.

Get a realistic picture of what the divorce will be from your attorney. Ask what factors might impact in your favor, what will be negative for you and what you can do to improve your position. I’m guessing rather little... Then work towards the best solution.

Detach from her. Be indifferent rather than angry in what you show her. You don’t need to argue or be confrontational, but you don’t need to be friendly and communicative. In a sense she should be treated like a coworker that has been dismissed. Whether she’s happy at her new job or not is of no concern of yours.

Have a realistic understanding of what the relationship after divorce will be:
You probably know someone that is divorced. Are they texting with their ex? Haven’t they eventually found a way to coparent without codependency? Are they committed to living within 200 yards of their ex so the kids don’t experience the "pain" of divorce?
You will soon realize that people move on. They stop focusing on their past lives, and start doing the most and best of their present.

Other than that – when you enter the discussions for divorce you have the same number of cards as she does. It’s to your advantage to hold your hand close, and to sacrifice as little as possible. If you do then it’s in exchange for something else.

Finally – as a very weak weapon:
In California infidelity seldom if ever factors in divorce. But you have one very faded and possibly from another deck Ace up your sleeve. That is third-party unbiased proof that she was either faking business expenses OR using marital income to travel, stay, wine-and-dine with her affair partner. Namely your PI report. It’s a very weak threat, but maybe the fear of having OM subpoenaed or mentioned in what is public information could grease a few angles in the negotiations.

Forgot to mention:
You say the OM and his wife are separated. Yet he same-day let’s her know that you – the spouse of the cause of their separation – are out on a date.
I what world does that make sense?
Where a separated couple are so friendly that they share the experiences of the spouses of the person they are having an affair with?

You need to confirm that whomever is sending you info as the OM wife is actually THE OM WIFE.

Thanks Bigger, I'm really stuck on this divorce path whether I want it or not so I guess I better walk it hard.

At this point my WW has finally expressed interest in moving out to her own place. There MAY be a way I can keep our house too. So I need to ask my lawyer when we meet tomorrow about that. As in, IF she's willing to sign something legal that sets that to and guarantees neither of us can move out of state with our son, I'd be up for it.

But if she just gets papers out of the blue saying "he wants the house, he wants the kid, he wants spousal support" I know she'll freak out. Which I'd enjoy to know she feels awful... BUT with the AP in her ear and her personality, she'd probably dig in and fight me to the death.

Also, the OBS is certainly the other wife, since I've spoken to her on the phone too. I also found emails she sent my WW telling her to end it, telling her about how the AP is narcissistic and all his bad qualities, etc., and threatening to report them to their companies.

Hey Alpha, how did the meeting with your lawyer go?

It went well, it's pretty preliminary so far though. They're drafting papers and then my WW would get served sometime in the next 2 weeks hopefully.

I expressed that not losing my son and not letting her take him out of state is my top priority.

The WW herself has been weird, texting me more nice things. Yesterday she texted me this too:

"I know it doesn't help us now and it's probably too late, but I'm going to stop talking to him. Need to clear this fog. It's a real thing. Would like to talk to you more though. But want you to know where I'm at.

I regret my selfish choices that got us to this point. It should never have even started with him. and if I stopped all contact now what's even the point. I already lost you. :(

I don't deserve or expect anything from you after how I've been. But I'm going to focus on getting my mental and physical health back so I can be my best again. And i can't do that if I'm talking to him."

I reminded her that she didn't LOSE me, she LEFT me.

And today she said "Hope you have a good day ❤️"

And I haven't responded.

Also: her mom told me she emailed the WW. She told her to stop and think a little bit. Said even if she's not with me, she really really needs to put our son first and work on herself WITHOUT the AP in the picture...

How about responding "only contact me if it involves our son or I will block you." Or something like that. A co-parenting app might be in order.

She has a lot of nerve. She saw how much her affair devastated you, told you it was over,she wouldn't lie,and wanted to attempt reconciliation. Then turned around and went out of state with him,and acted like a married couple. Now she wants you to believe it's over? She doesn't think you're very smart.

Also..she mentions not talking to him anymore. She seems intent on wanting you to believe that. My guess is ,she thinks you are talking to his wife,and she wants you to tell his wife that they're no longer involved. She's protecting him.

Just keep in mind..she was perfectly fine allowing you to think it was over, while taking the affair underground. She wasn't counting on you hiring a PI. Had you not, she would still be with him, while pretending with you.

[This message edited by HellFire at 12:25 AM, Thursday, April 11th]

Ahhhhhh good point 👍 Probably 100% right on that.

She seems intent on wanting you to believe that. My guess is ,she thinks you are talking to his wife,and she wants you to tell his wife that they're no longer involved. She's protecting him.

I regret my selfish choices that got us to this point. It should never have even started with him. and if I stopped all contact now what's even the point. I already lost you. :(

WOW. I have no words that one.

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this right now. Your world has been turned upside down discovering this trauma. I have a four year old son as well and it complicates matters even more

I think cutting him off is all for the good.

If you might not want to divorce I would tell her that you support the no contact. If she genuinely went no contact and maintained it 100%, then you could watch how she is going and maintain a dialogue, but it would be slow slow going with no promises or guarantees of anything. If she has any intention to contact him ever, then better end it now rather than betray you again. So it’s not a great choice, but it’s consistent with what she professes about wanting to clear the fog and fix herself.

Also..she mentions not talking to him anymore. She seems intent on wanting you to believe that. My guess is ,she thinks you are talking to his wife,and she wants you to tell his wife that they're no longer involved. She's protecting him.

HF, it scares me sometimes how suspicious (but probably accurate) your mind is with this stuff. Fascinating call out.

I think you’re bang on the money Hellfire. That kind of insight only comes from experience unfortunately.

There’s two types of WS. 1. They aren’t planning on leaving their spouse (at least not yet) when they get found out. 2. They have detailed plans to leave their spouse for AP and either get caught or just leave and blame the BS.

If you’re dealing with the 2nd type you will have an invasion of the body snatchers moment and won’t be prepared for the level of deviousness, deception and downright evil you see from your WS.

HF, it scares me sometimes how suspicious (but probably accurate) your mind is with this stuff.

It scares me that I'm usually right.

That kind of insight only comes from experience unfortunately.

Very.

I have experience dealing with an extremely manipulative wayward wife. The ow has stalked me for nearly 15 years. I've watched her attempts to manipulate me. I've talked to her husband. I know how devious she was with him. I watched her manipulate the members here...I saw how easily she made even the most respected fws here believe her outrageous lies. I've read ow forums. I see how incredibly manipulative they can be. It's scary to know there are people in this world who wear a mask,and seem to be one thing,but are actually quite the opposite.

I trust very few people. I would never trust a freshly caught WS.

I just join the others telling you not to believe your WS in ever she says. Unfortunately she is a trained liar.

S

The ow has stalked me for nearly 15 years. I've watched her attempts to manipulate me.

WHAT?? Can’t you sue her for harassment/stalking, Hellfire? What is your spouse’s role in all this?

[This message edited by Fantastic at 12:13 PM, Thursday, April 11th]

Earlier on I posted this:

You relieve her of all expectations and expectations of husband and wife, and at the same time absolve yourself of all such obligations. The only thing left is to finalize the legal divorce, and to negotiate how you two will interact until that process is finalized.
You are too emotionally attached to the marriage you thought you had to interact more than necessary with her from now on. You would want to speed things along as fast as possible, while abiding by the laws and processes of your state. You have no intention of demanding more than your share in the D, but have no wish to get less than your share. You expect the process to be as fair as possible.

I think you should stick to that line-of-thought.
Let her know that your relationship as husband and wife is over, except for the legal aspect. You don’t really care if she’s in contact with the OM or not and have no interest in knowing her emotional status. Your goal is to detach, and you have no real expectation of remaining friends, although you want to remain amicable for aspects regarding your son. Ask her that she respect your wish that interactions are limited to logistics regarding your son.

Only do the below if you have some wish to reconcile. If not, then skip it completely.
If you have some wish to reconcile then you can add that IF she were to tell you she wants a chance to reconcile she can let you know, but that would require some unnegotiable concessions on her half – including total accountable NC with the OM, the total unabridged truth, a commitment to IC, accountability and a realization that this would take years to work through. Make it equally clear that with each day your willingness to reconcile diminishes, and the more content you are with your decision to divorce.

T/j..

WHAT?? Can’t you sue her for harassment/stalking, Hellfire? What is your spouse’s role in all this?

She's very clever. There's no law that says she can't drive past my house. She sends me "gifts," always paid with a prepaid visa, using fake emails accounts. She mails me self help books through snail mail. (I made the mistake of mentioning my CSA on here..within a week,I received 2 self help books,to learn how to move on). She can not call or email either of us,because we have both locked down tight. She can't find us on social media. Unfortunately, we had a mutual friend. That woman was very close to me,and I had allowed her to use my iPad on a trip. She found my account here,and learned my username. She shared that with OW, who promptly arrived here, as a battered WW(she was the abuser..I know this for a fact). When I never commented on her posts, she sent me an email,and let me know who she was. As I said,I've since changed my email address, and she can't reach me that way.

My husband's role..he invited her into our lives. He absolutely despises her. Which I'm ok with. They say indifference is the goal. And I was indifferent until she contacted by just turned 18 year old child on SM. She told her of the affair. Shared details no child should ever hear. Shared pics that weren't sexual,but definitely showed her step-dad in a horrible light. It traumatized her. It's been several years, and their relationship is very strained. He knows its his fault that he ever became involved with her. He hates himself..and he despises her for contacting our daughter. Other than that..he can't stop her from stalking anymore than I can. We've spoken to an attorney. Until she slips up,there's no legal recourse. Presently, she is back in jail. She has a long arrest record of child abuse, DV, drugs,etc.

[This message edited by HellFire at 6:55 PM, Thursday, April 11th]