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I can’t face the detail right now. But as a general consensus, when your WP has sworn to no contact and you start to feel slightly human again, then catch him breaking it - same AP in my case - is this ever forgivable?

After all the pain of trying to reconcile, it puts me back to day 1. I need out. Its time.

X

[This message edited by Littleyellow at 12:59 PM, Tuesday, December 21st]

I’m sorry you are facing this situation LittleYellow.

It truly stinks when YOU are working on the marriage and the cheating spouse continues to cheat.

Breaking the No Contact boundary is a dealbreaker for many. For a whole slew of reasons.

In my case dday2 was a dealbreaker and for the first and only time in 25 years I told my H I was Divorcing him. I had no other options at that point.

If you can provide some details such as is this his first affair, or how long the affair has been going on it may provide some insight.

Also affairs are like an addiction. So it may be he’s addictedto the feelings he gets — not actually the OW.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 9:17 PM, Tuesday, December 21st]

to feel slightly human again, then catch him breaking it - same AP in my case - is this ever forgivable?

After all the pain of trying to reconcile, it puts me back to day 1. I need out. Its time.

This is so unfortunate that your WS violated your agreement and a gift of R that you gave him. A's are terrible addictions, your WS can't control himself. Thus, LOVE MUST BE TOUGH. (there is a very good book with the same title that might be very helpful to you to read). They are going to deny addiction (as my H originally did). YOU can do nothing in this case. Your WS must want to fix himself and his internal issues.

For me, any violation of the NC agreement would be a dealbreaker. Such actions show that they still have severe character flaws, lack of self-control, continue with addiction, entitlement. They were not snapped out of "fog" and "lala land" after DDday's. There is nothing here to work with possibly. There is no excuse for such disrespect towards you. Your WS will probably stay unhappy because he uses his freedoms in improper ways.

But the positive of this, it helps to make the decision and take control in own life. LittleYellow, please try to turn this situation around to make the best decision for YOU.

Strength to you!

[This message edited by TruthIsPower at 5:19 PM, Tuesday, December 21st]

Hello Yellow,

I am sorry your WH broke NC. It is gut wrenching.

For many it IS a deal breaker. But only you can decide that.

A's are terrible addictions, your WS can't control himself

I start to take a little issue on this comment from a previous poster. This is true initially, but breaking NC after a long time seems to be to indicate the the WH has not done the work or reached true remorse in my opinion. But maybe I don’t have enough context to how NC was broken — all breaking of NC is bad, but different kinds of reach out would be more egregious (eg asking for a hookup). And how he has handled it would also play a role to me.

What has been your WH’s reaction/response? Did you find out or did he tell you? Did he confess and explore why he did it and make a plan to become safe again? Or is "no big deal" to him, just trying to be friendly or some such bullshit?

Was it in person or by text/email/phone? (If in person, then I think you should get STD tested— sorry…)

What do you FEEL? What does your gut tell you?

What do you want?

This really comes down to you. My WH broke NC a year after DDAY and a week after our home burnt down. That was the last straw for me.

You get to decide on your timeline. You can decide when you decide. If this week it is too much to deal with, then January it is.

Meanwhile, you know the routine. Take care of your body - exercise, water, sleep, avoid alcohol. Take care of your mind— IC, speak with trusted friend/pastor/confident, post here.

Hang in there, LittleYellow. (((Hugs)))

[This message edited by BearlyBreathing at 5:49 PM, Tuesday, December 21st]

LittleYellow,

then catch him breaking it - same AP in my case

Did I read it right originally that your WS got caught after breaking NC?

Thank you everyone, sorry if I’m not covering everyone’s points as I’m a bit flat but it is ever so appreciated.

His phone has work related apps that they use for conference calls remotely. He was behaving suspicious so I had a look through last used apps and could see a call through this to her (they do not work together for your info!). He said it was a one off Christmas call and other than that they haven’t spoken in over a year, that she was talking about losing her dog and had been upset so needed to talk. But after seeing ME suffer to the point of not wanting a place on this earth, why would he choose to communicate with the person that caused this, for any reason whatsoever!!

He’s now acting like a lost puppy and saying how stupid he feels and he’ll never have any ounce of contact with her ever again, but now I’m starting to think the kind, gentle man I thought he was (prior to original D Day, most was already lost) doesn’t exist. Someone mentioned gut feeling, my gut tells me if I stay, the long term pain will be worse than trying to save myself now.

X

is this ever forgivable?

Yes. But without hard boundaries and the actual remorse and commitment from the WS, it’s basically just saying that you’ll take him back no matter what.

Someone mentioned gut feeling, my gut tells me if I stay, the long term pain will be worse than trying to save myself now.

Listen to it; it’s trying to protect you.

He may claim he won’t contact her again, but those are just words. They mean nothing if actions don’t back them up.

[This message edited by Forks027 at 8:25 PM, Tuesday, December 21st]

My opinion is that he doesn’t get, doesn’t want to get it and never will get it.

He willingly called her 🚩

He did it on an app on his phone 🚩

He’s more concerned about the OW than you 🚩

Your marriage is second in line, his own selfish desires are first 🚩

He’s proven he is not willing to give up the OW 🚩

He is not willing to be monogamous 🚩

That didn't sound very convincing to me.
Is the app they've used a very widely used app like WhatsApp or Telegram, or is it some no one would think to look at? If it's the latter, they're more likely to have their ongoing contact underground.
I didn't quite understand who was calling who. Actually, I understood as if your WP had called her, but coincidentally(!) it was the AP who needed to talk?

End of the day, he had one very simple thing to do to keep R happening.

He failed to do even that.

Stupidity doesn't enter the equation but a selfish "me" attitude does. Is this really the life you want to lead? Waiting for him to do his next "stupid" thing just to drag it all back to day 1 and for you to start all over again?

And then have that happen again, and again, and again?

Time to drop the mic on this marriage.

He said it was a one off Christmas call and other than that they haven’t spoken in over a year, that she was talking about losing her dog and had been upset so needed to talk.

It is difficult to find any logic in his excuse. OW needed to talk... How did your WH know that and just happen to call her? At what time did you become suspicious according to the date and time of the call? Prior to or after the call? This OW needed emotional support from her AP, and it made your WH put her emotional well-being above yours? Looks like you have your answers... You gave him a chance to rebuild himself, looks like he failed.

(((Littleyellow)))

He said she reached out via a message, which he deleted out of habit before calling her. To be honest, I’m always suspicious, I check his phone at any given opportunity, but he seemed shifty!

He’s at home almost all the time, works from home, never spends an overnight away, so I’m pretty sure it’s unlikely they could be continuing the affair, physically. I wish I could hear the phone conversation. Were they talking about me?! Arranging to meet in the new year? Or talking about a dog. It just reminds me of how well he lied at D-Day.

X

He said she reached out via a message, which he deleted out of habit before calling her.

At what point did you find out about the message from OW? Before you posted on SI or after?

Unfortunately, TBH, you're not out of infidelity... Your WS is still lying, you're constantly suspicious of his actions, there can't be Trust. And the fact that he deleted the message... Did you both have an agreement that he must tell you in case OW or any other woman reaches out to him and show you any messages in those cases? and then you both decide what to do and how to handle the situation? OK, what didn't/doesn't he understand? Is he testing your reaction like a toddler? Does he feel trapped in a relationship with you? You have to put a lot of effort to continue to tolerate this kind of behavior from your WH if you want to see your WS not under some kind of insanity and irrational consciousness thought process. Really, it's very difficult for the sane and stable person to find even a slight excuse for this kind of disrespect and violation.

Does this really matter to you if he's at home or at work? Inappropriate actions towards you can happen at both places. And even in his troubled (addicted?) mind. The majority of WS is really broken people and they themselves must become aware of their issues and really want to grow and change. You can't change your WS unless he wants to do it.

I strongly suggest that you skim thru the book "Love must be tough" (available for free on archivesdotcom). You can drop religious content.

((()))

He needs to understand that even if he's telling the truth, deleting her message "out of habit," calling her back, and hiding it from you are three serious problems.

he's telling the truth

BSR, I see a greater problem here... According to LittleYellow, she caught her WS. He was not truthful with her.

I don’t know what I wanted to hear from you all. It’s quite tough but I know it all myself but it’s not easy even to hear. The message element was confessed when I pressed him on what spurred him to engage in contact. I’m going to read the book. Anyone find they can’t eat after a revelation? My stomach is so full of adrenaline 😭

The message element was confessed when I pressed him on what spurred him to engage in contact. I’m going to read the book. Anyone find they can’t eat after a revelation? My stomach is so full of adrenaline 😭

I feel your pain, Littleyellow.... This probably feels to you as another DDay...

Try to ground yourself. You're going thru the same emotions again as on original DDay... Your body and mind are operating in survival mode. The goal now is to take control of the situation and calm your mind. If you can't eat, try to drink water and /or smoothies. If you wish, PM me, I'll try to help you.

[This message edited by TruthIsPower at 5:15 PM, Wednesday, December 22nd]

So sorry for this most recent betrayal.

It took my fWH about 12 months before he completely freed himself from the contact cycle. But my expectations were really low so I didn't react for the first 6 months; I was buying time to prepare for a divorce at the time, because I was the income earner in the house, and needed time to get his employment capability proven so I wouldn't have to pay alimony. As long as he was holding down a job, I didn't care. I was numb and indifferent. But I was tracking the phone bill, data usage, and his online activities, thanks to a very savvy son who set up our router for me.

Mentally I wasn't in marriage recovery mode. I focused entirely on self-preservation.

I would suggest that you have that conversation with your WH - that he has a limited amount of time to earn his way back into the marriage. That you're assuming you're done at this point, and when you're over the shock of his betrayal, you'll finish off the marriage with a divorce. That gap is the only time he has to save the marriage and prove his change of heart. Give him no clues or give-a-damns. Let him know you're not going to fall all over him and reward behaviors that should have been a given for a married man. He assaulted the marriage and it's on life support. You're not going to do anything to try to help him and he needs to expect no forgiveness for the foreseeable future.

Most waywards slip a few times. It's like addicts. There's usually a slip or two on the way to solid clean time. Too many times, the codependent person rewards good behavior far too soon and lets the addict back in way too quickly.

Make him earn the marriage and continued contact with you.

Indifference is your friend. That's the thing that scared my husband straight into recovery. I wasn't angry anymore. I completely disengaged. I kept hammering the message - I don't need a cheater in my life. And you're a cheater until you prove otherwise.

Littleyellow, I am wondering, what made you post this in the divorce/separation forum, and not in R forum?

Truth is power, I’m not sure, I suppose my initial reaction was that it was a dealbreaker I’ve made that clear to him! But I’m struggling with the reality of a life without him, the biggest fear is he goes to her. I couldn’t handle that I know I couldn’t. I can’t even handle imagining it. Although knowing her track record I doubt they’d ever last!!!!!

X