SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Venting.

Heads up for me. STBXWW's crazy OM is out of the picture, fled to another state apparently.

And that's great, except...

Narcissistic supply for STBX's (of the bad kind) is starting to focus back on me. Right on schedule.

Through L, I expressed concern about the stability of her household with regard to the kids. We got a (verbal) response through her L that rambled all kinds of complaints, but seemed to focus about me not being "communicative" (a reference to my NC except for kids and finances and insistence on written communication) and the "tone of my texts" (without giving any examples).

Never mind that my kids at her household are little more than pawns. Over there, there's no help with homework, and she sends them to bed at a godawful early time, because the only way she can relate to them is by taking them to fun amusement parks. As soon as it's about responsibility, she pawns that to a babysitter, her mother, or me. Payment for her share of medical expenses (which are high due to SN son) which she agreed to in writing? Zero dollars, zero cents.

So now I will be compiling the entire set of texts since S, so my L can check them for "tone" now. Because of course I'm the "bad guy".

Yes, I am a very loving and polite texter and emailer. To those have my trust. To those who don't, polite but businesslike and to the point, so I can get things accomplished with a minimum of fuss. Apparently that's a trigger for an NPD, how dare I be less than perfectly sweet after what she did and continues doing?

So bottom line, I'm done walking on eggshells. NPDSTBXWW doesn't like that, so it's legal bullying time, because how could it be otherwise? But the final conference we requested about 8 months ago and they agreed to in writing? Ah, no, we can't have that part yet. Even though originally (while clearly still in the A with OM, which he has confirmed) she stated - also in writing - that she wanted the divorce final in six months. Or rather, "of course, we said we could, we'll get you this, and that", and then.... many more months of silence.

1 year down, 9 more years to go of coparenting. I think just this entire situation is proof enough of me actually doing this for and focusing on my kids.

What other reason could there be to put up with this nightmare?

WellPlayed & kids))))

Reason #6940 I thank God, Green Angels, and Nanny Boo Boo I DIDN'T have kids with my pet.

If it ever comes before a judge, I hope your L serves her narcissistic ass up with bullet points.

You'd think courts have experience & knowledge regarding these assclowns.

Bentwood,

Vent as much as you need, it helps.

GP, I think its time for a list of expenses and a list of what was paid and by whom ... To your lawyer.

Don't wait to long, her lawyer will try to negotiate it down.

Hugs,

K

This is very familiar.

An instance to share from here is that x wanted very much to leave the legal papers regarding schedule for kids open ended. I know now, that it is his last bit of control on our lives.

Well, ever time there is a visit pending, I hear from him to cover the times. I myself do not contact the guy, ever, ever ever! and pretend I live on Mars or am invisible. So now, if I am not able to agree right away to his "suggestions", he resorts to name calling. I notice a trend where most every communication about this can't go by without this or cyber yelling at me.

I am finally able to read the words without emotions and realize that it is him. I started a new thing where I do not reply for a time and when I do, politely and matter of factly counter the accusations of me being "rigid", "unrelenting" and so forth, because I prefer a routine for kids-so do the lawyers-and he is all about him. I do this with reminders of times he came that weren't when he said and I was silent, or times I saved on my electronics where different options were given and he chose not to take them.

I also tell him it is for the kids and not me-I'm not even there!

Anyway...I was thinking about npd lately and it struck me that even though npd oriented people are bullies, they are also codependent. It is a new angle for me to think about.

I also think sometimes, imagine what it would be like to grow old with such a person?

I'm sorry for everyone's trouble with it...it sucks. It also amazes me how long it can be hidden, but there are patterns that we can work with when we discover them.

[This message edited by Ashland13 at 3:10 PM, January 11th (Sunday)]

Ash this is my first post on this thread because two things that you have said strike a chord with me. First is that growing old with someone like this would totally suck now wouldn't it? My STBXW is really high functioning with borderline traits, but really neither the kids nor especially myself could ever be sick or incapacitated around her. I would hide it when I had the flu etc because she couldn't take it and the babies and I would suffer. My God, what a way to live! So yeah they are codependent, need everyone under control because they can't face it otherwise.

Second is more a question. We have both signed off on an agreement where visitation scheduling is very much open ended. She wanted it that way, and I conceded to make everything about her (and get my $$ in the settlement). So my question is: how best do you handle scheduling etc?

We have both signed off on an agreement where visitation scheduling is very much open ended. She wanted it that way, and I conceded to make everything about her (and get my $$ in the settlement). So my question is: how best do you handle scheduling etc?

My X would not allow me, the lawyers, or the courts to define how he was going to parent our children. He would do what HE knew best to do! And... given his NPD/BPD charms, and high profile very responsible career, the courts granted his desires.

As the NPD thing began to surface in my WS, he started bristling at any demands on his time (other than work). He termed this "bullying" ... saying the courts were among the worst bullies... and I was bully too. He told me the rules did not/do not apply to him because he is so much smarter than everyone! Yada yada yada.

Anyway, NPD X is pretty minimal on the whole parenting thing UNLESS it is in his interests.

Sometimes he is great. But mostly he is absent, attending to other interests more important than his kids.

My therapist advised that NPDs /BPDs have a marked inability to attache to, and care for their kids in the way normal people do. They do not love others. They lack compassion and real empathy for others. This includes their children.

NPD X has a need to look good in the eyes of people he desires to have approval from. Done right, the kids can be great vehicles for this so that he gets accolades for being "such a great dad!" from his mom, his siblings, his friends, the school principle (who he liked a lot). His wife (the OW) has her own weirdly sociopath type issues, but she is nice to our kids, and NPD X desires to appear super-dad like in her eyes. So you know, I try to exploit the NPDness to best serve our kids needs.

All my communications to him are only related to our kids, or other court related mandates. I keep these short, to the point, and neutral. His NPD attention span is low.

I have to be VERY clear about what is needed from him, and express why this is a great thing for him to do. EG... present the supply opportunity.

I walk on eggshells in all my communications with him. I NEVER COMPLAIN, or point out his failings. It serves me no purpose. He does not take well to any criticisms. Not even with the courts. He is perfect. Better than perfect.

Supply. Supply. Supply.

I have learned to keep my focus on goals I have for our children. I manipulate as much as I can. But, I do not count on him to be there for our kids.

I have learned to take nothing my NPD X says, or does, personally. There have been times when he shows up for our kids, and once I know he is there, I fade away. But, it is clear our kids are just not his priority in life. So, I try to always be there for our kids.. to always "have their back". It is weirdly like being a single parent, but sometimes going invisible so he can have the entire limelight when he does show up and come through for them.

Basically, parenting with an NPD X .. BPD X is like walking a tight rope over loaded bear traps.

KWIM?

Edit > spelling demons!

[This message edited by luv2swim at 1:38 AM, January 12th (Monday)]

Anyway...I was thinking about npd lately and it struck me that even though npd oriented people are bullies, they are also codependent. It is a new angle for me to think about.

I also think sometimes, imagine what it would be like to grow old with such a person?

Oooo... Ashland 13 THIS!

I never imagined I would write this line, but honestly....

YAY to the skanky, sociopath-ish bitch with a history of home wrecking who intervened in my marriage as the OW.

Thanks to OW involvement, I am divorced from my NPD/BPD beloved (and I did love him much ... in that codependent manner that we do). And now... she is married to him!

And ... (the light bulb of gratitude just popped on in me), I do not have to grow old living with and providing supply to a cranky, bullying, perfectionist NPD/BPD (who lies and has affairs!).

Hmmmm...

Maybe she did this with the family she broke up prior (I am pretty certain that fellow was also NPD).

Could the skanky sociopath-ish homewrecker bitch actually be an angel sent to spare women from a long marriage growing old with NPD/BPD husbands?

GAAAAAAAAAAAA! Head exploding here.

Feeling my many years of loathing for OW suddenly dissolving!

[This message edited by luv2swim at 2:39 AM, January 12th (Monday)]

Thanks to OW involvement, I am divorced from my NPD/BPD beloved (and I did love him much ... in that codependent manner that we do). And now... she is married to him!

...

And ... I do not have to grow old living with

...

Could the skanky sociopath-ish homewrecker bitch actually be an angel sent to spare women from a long marriage growing old with NPD/BPD husbands?

Oh yes this is it EXACTLY. As horrible and damaging as all this is, we are free. Although it will be a very long time to rebuild ourselves, it isn't the life sentence that continued codependence to an abuser would have been.

That homewrecker sociopathic asshole is my new best friend! They are perfect for one-another. I wish her all the happiness she deserves with him.

KWIM?

Oh yes I know exactly what you mean. As I read your post it’s like: check that, check that….

I walk on eggshells in all my communications with him. I NEVER COMPLAIN, or point out his failings. It serves me no purpose. He does not take well to any criticisms. Not even with the courts. He is perfect. Better than perfect.

Basically, parenting with an NPD X .. BPD X is like walking a tight rope over loaded bear traps

…

So the eggshells never end. Was expecting that, Sigh. However at least we don’t have to LIVE with her!

Social appearances is really my only card to play moving forward, however it’s a very powerful one. Her family loves me and knows what she is, so I will have a platform there at least. She’ll be conflicted between personal greed and being seen as providing for her children. My guess is that all I’ll ever see will be the agreed child support.

Right now she is doing her own thing, and “happy to have the opportunity to pursue new and exciting opportunities in her life.” (free of the burden of husband and family) Funny though, the only thing she really did was cook. Apart from that, my workload around the house hasn’t changed much since she left.

Actually now she’s a better parent than she ever was. She does have feelings for the kids to a degree. Not enough, but enough to plan fun things with them on her weekends (and post every bit of it to Facebook of course).

What keeps me awake at night is this: What happens when the girls are old enough to drive and be self-sufficient? She could then be seen as the valiant single parent to kids that would come with child support from me... Of course it would be a disaster because she doesn’t really want them. HOWEVER at that point want the IDEA of having them. She has a long history of fighting for things only to discard soon after she gets them.

antlered: You asked about your children when they get older. Kids see things better than we realize. With my older DS's from wh#1, the boys saw right through their father. They knew I was always there for them.

The same is true with current STBxWH#2. DS 19 and DS16 tell me their perspective in a much more realistic light than I am seeing myself.

As a child of D myself, it's hard, because you do love and sometimes hate the parent who left who can have NPD traits and are angry too. Kids do see the truth.

When your kids are older, it's their relationship with the NPD they have to work out one way or another. Keep loving them and supporting them emotionally. They know in the end.

Hello Dear Tribe. I have dropped in here from time to time, but lurk an awful lot.

I finally, finally, finally decided to D NPDwH.

I've seen 4 different lawyers, and one did not even want to touch my case.

I have been a SAHM for 16 years. Living with NPD and trying to R, false R, TT etc etc, 3 OC's, never gave up OW, etc I'm finally done.

The past year, my depression hit the floor. (yes I see IC and am on AD's). A lot of suicidal ideation. I was paralyzed emotionally.

My question is, since I'm dealing with a NPD, should I just quietly get my ducks in a row, get a job, etc BEFORE I file? I did try on many occasions to get him to leave, but he refused, told me it was his house too, blah blah blah, and then ended up hoovering me back in.

I guess it's because I've waited this long (years) and I'm dealing with a NPD, that I hesitate to follow friends and family with well meaning advice of "kick him out" (how does one do that when he won't go!) My gut is telling me to get those ducks in a row that I didn't/couldn't before and get a job before I actually tell NPD WH that it's over.

I don't want to poke the bear. He knows how to push my buttons since he installed them!

Thank you so very much.

My prayers are with all those who are struggling.

Although it will be a very long time to rebuild ourselves, it isn't the life sentence that continued codependence to an abuser would have been.

I agree with the long amount of time to rebuild ourselves, but the relief was immediate upon getting him out of the house!! Things get better and better as time goes on and there's less and less contact with ex. Amen to whatever frees us from that life.

My question is, since I'm dealing with a NPD, should I just quietly get my ducks in a row, get a job, etc BEFORE I file? I did try on many occasions to get him to leave, but he refused, told me it was his house too, blah blah blah, and then ended up hoovering me back in.

In my situation, I consulted an attorney long before I ever let my ex know about it. Things will differ with each state and each situation, so it's difficult to advise you on which ducks to line up, you know? If your stbx is truly NPD, divorce is more difficult and you'll need someone who is used to fighting for what you'll get. I went interviewing until I found someone I felt was up to taking on my ex. Then I discussed our situation and followed the attorney's advice on how to go from there. In general, don't let on to your stbx ANY of your intentions. You'll want to gather information and if he's suspicious of divorce, he may hide things.

So my question is: how best do you handle scheduling etc?

My children were older, but it was crucial to me that choice be given to my son about whether or not he saw his dad. The situation between them was not good, and I couldn't see making him go to his dad's house. (Ex is an addict - lots of issues there.) I would think that giving an NPD anything open-ended leaves things wide open for manipulation and fighting. From what I've seen, it's all going to get worse after the divorce. Hopefully others with younger children will weigh in on this.

Honest,

You know your NPD best, that will help you navigate this.

Your gut is telling you what YOU need, keep listening to it.

As for getting him out of the house, when you file, have your attorney ask foe exclusive use of the home. If the courts grant it, they will tell him to go and give him a day to be out.

First things first, take care of you...

Hugs,

K

Quick rundown..I will read up on others post just capturing the karma bus catching up.

Ex & the new GF keep causing drama..they act like they are on cloud 9, however, reality is much crueler.

The kids came back from a week long visit and shared so many things, I felt so sad and didn't even feel glad they lived that way but in their mind they are so happy.

Just a few things that have happened since they moved into their "HOME" full of love.

Had to sell his car to pay for rent. Now they both split the car they have. HE didn't take kids to therapy OR school because no gas $ but he has enough to take them to work and around town for them.

The gf works@local convinience store (7-11/Circle k) like..and the food that is expired and needs to be tossed in garbage, she takes home and that is what they eat- ALOT. Literally dumpster diving to survive.

They are such losers that they haven't bought a single thing for the kids and they had to wear clothes that they had previously left behind that didn't fit and were summer & light. He didn't buy our son shoes so he had our DS wear HIS shoes and he didn't go work because he didn't have another pair of shoes.

For the holidays, no xmas gifts but they gave DD6- a box full of toys & junk they got from a trash dump. NOT even washed or cleaned up, Nothing wrong with previously loved stuff but not straight from the dump~~~ wash, disinfect it, clean it up before giving it. Our daughter is asthmatic and a box full of stuffed animals from the garbage prob not a good idea.

Apparently, he had to either drive kids to & from school for the 2 days or work- with no shoes and no $$ for gas- he didn't work. Wonder how they are going to pay rent with the reduction in income.

All the praise NewGF pays him about his education, work experience and all that crap, he can't get a job that pays more than minimum wage.

They live in poverty but still living it up, nothing towards kids needs or care.

He is the type to never do his income taxes, I can guarantee this year he will be filing. BUT he might not since he is in arrears for child support and believes he will have that taken out and come to me. HOW can he allow me to benefit from that!?

Consequences, If he and gf hadn't acted like the douchebag narc they are, this could have been so different. Hell I would have probably helped them set up their love nest but since I am the glue that holds them together..the drama is what they thrive, they can't avoid making drama.

Douchebag behavior, always threatening with contempt of court for visitation denial, switches weeks like underwear, never calls or makes contact with kids..but blames me for keeping kids away.

I agree to switching weeks(weds to Weds) for new years vs christmas, he gets his phone shut off due to non payment- ONLY texts. I had to show up with cops to drop off phone for kids to use to contact me. HE doesn't allow kids to contact me because they keep wanting to come home. He tries to end visit on Sunday- early so he can work on a full week. I remind him, he has a FULL week. He tries to use the school clothes & supplies kids need, I remind him, he wants 50-50 get used to it. His responsibility to provide.

to avoid even seeing him, I gave him extra time to drop kids off directly at school on Weds am..so he doesn't take kids to school and since noone has heard from kids for days, I had to show up with police for safety check and to bring kids home on Wednesday. He just wanted to see me and get some Negative attention-because that is attention anyway.

Both him & gf were cleaning /organizing garage, car parked in front. The kids were playing and in pjs. Both thought nothing wrong with not taking kids to school.

Shes a deadbeat parent as well, her mother in law & family raise her son- what can we expect.

I don't know but standards definitely are different because who likes living like that?

Honest,

I think you are on the right track. Get your ducks in a row. Get employment. Do something each day for YOU!

I'm glad your sons are old enough to have perspective. (as you said to me, the kids know, they aren't stupid!). Basically anything that you do for YOU is good. People who just say "kick his asss to the curb" mean we'll, and probably aren't incorrect, but don't understand what it its like to be involved for several years with an NPD. We get it. You are getting there, and I'm happy for you!

Needing some hugs tonight. and probably a strong drink.

I have been leaving my STBWXH alone for about 2 months now; I came to accept my marriage being over and that we are getting divorced. I learned to try to believe that he is an ass. Hard as anything. So lonely.

He is willing to wait til Dec to finalize divorce so I can get military insurance for life. But he wants to divide all assets now. And he wants to discuss this with me, while I want to do it thru the lawyers.

Today I got a call from a process server. I filed for D. in March. STBXH just filed his own petition. When I filed, I worried about him and gave him the paperwork myself, had him notarize it and then I returned it to my lawyer. He is now having me served. I work at home; kids may see this. It just seems nasty. He called. We never talk, so I answered and he was extremely nasty and has been sending me spewing texts since...ranting about my behavior during our marriage/back 18 years. I asked him on the phone why any of this was important now, as he decided we were done and he was in love with his AP, why not just leave it in the past. Why rehash everything? I just don't get it. Is he bothered that I stopped begging him to fix things? Stopped telling him I care? What is the point to all of this?

I asked him on the phone why any of this was important now, as he decided we were done and he was in love with his AP, why not just leave it in the past. Why rehash everything? I just don't get it. Is he bothered that I stopped begging him to fix things? Stopped telling him I care? What is the point to all of this?

Futurehoper: the WHY of the NPD is probably related to some goofiness internal to their feelings. In my NPD X, he would seemingly bait me to react to his nonsense, his drama 'o' the day. I remember thinking it was like he knew where my tender spots were, and he kept sticking the emotional knife in there .. twisting, irritating .. until I snapped.

My sense of the "WHY" of an NPD has something to do with their own desire for power over us. We have fallen from grace, and when we get mad at the NPD, I suspect it makes them feel better. Like they are a human who has control, and we are slime ... worth leaving behind.

As difficult as it is, when the future X decides he/she must engage in drama-craziness, I think neutral response is the only way. Things like "Hmmm"... "I will think about what you are saying here" ... "Thanks for sharing this with me"... "I hear you"... and the silent nod of head, with lips tightly pursed.

Anything else will assuredly be used against you! And remember too, no matter how right and justified you are, your STBXNPD will not care. Can not care.

As you attempt to idle to DEC, I suggest you become as invisible as possible. DO NOT ENGAGE. DO NOT BITE THE BAIT that our NPDs so often tangle in front of us.

Instead, keep your focus on your goals, your life.

And never, ever, play the role of victim of NPD craziness. It just is not worth it. NPDs occasionally have moments of apology. But generally, YOU are the cause of their pain. YOU are to blame for (fill in the blank). Once the NPD spouse has defected over to the newest object of supply, we become a person to DEVALUE ... DEMEAN ... DEMOTE!

Do not take any of it personally.

Just my experience

... and I should have listened to my mother-in-law who advised 6 weeks after her son bailed out on our family for the OW ...

"Just Move On"!

Thank you for the advice luv2swim. It seems that he is trying to assert control over the situation (splitting the finances). He had sent me an email with how he wants to divide things. I simply thanked him and left it at that. I forwarded it to my attorney and our plan is to discuss it when we receive his petition for divorce. But, what WH wants me to do is agree now, with him by text or phone or email, that his division is okay with me. He says I am going to waste too much money fighting with him over the money and I should accept his 'offer' to make things easy and appreciate him waiting til Dec so I can have tricare. Well, his 'offer' is hardly fair to me and there is no way I am going to accept it without negotiating. But I am refusing to fight with him, and that is pissing him off. I want to negotiate, calmly, with attorneys. I really don't think there is any other way to do this. I know my head is in the right place. His, I cannot say the same.

Hi Tribe,

I've been off the radar due to holidays and such. Survived the holidays which was tough...if any of you follow me in the divorce forum you know what is going on. Brief update: Dirty whore made them FB official, he is a much loved member of her family, they are moving in together as soon as I 'let him go', he has been on 3 weekend getaways since the first of December...the list goes on...

I hate this. We had a non-mediated settlement conference just between us and our attorney's which surprise-nothing was decided. It didn't go his way, I did not bend to his wishes and my attorney rocks. Period.

Since then it has been game on-very passive aggressive.

He has informed me that he is moving out and into a one bedroom apartment with his dirty whore...right by my office so I can see them together every day...she transferred to nights so they are working together, same shift everything.

He slapped our 9 yr old in the mouth for being sassy-we don't hit our kids like that!! EVER!

Last week went off on me in front of the kids-told me to fuck off and stop fucking talking to him...I left with the kids. I asked him in a calm tone of voice to stop talking to me like that in front of the kids and he flipped me off and told me to fuck off (sorry if I offend anyone with this language).

I did contact my attorney and nothing. In house separation sucks ass however nothing physical-he is a cop and knows the boundaries that he can push and he is pushing them.

He doesn't want the kids yet if he can prove I'm crazy then he gets them and I pay him CS...see where this is going?

Our court date is April 14th.

Pre Trial settlement Conference is March 4th.

I plan on talking to my attorney after this week, she is in court all week. He was to be sending me his final proposal which involves me not touching his pension however now he wants to go to court!

He isn't talking to me about the kids, everything I find out is through our babysitter or my oldest daughter. I have asked that he send me things via email or text-nothing.

My shields are up. I have absolutely no control over this and he has no fricking consequences.

How much more of this do I have to take?

How much more of this do the kids have to be subjected to?

No one gives a shit about them but me-I'm fighting this losing battle for them and their future and I feel that they are going to be f'd up for life!

Help.

I want this to end.