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I thank you for your prayers, NFH. I've believed in the power of prayer for as long as I can remember.

I'm doing better, I think. Youngest daughter married on October 8 and had twin grandsons born May 31. Personally, I'm finally accepting that divorce is the most likely outcome for me. My WW hasn't done any of the things I've requested to consider R. I'm to the point now that if she buckled down and did them I don't believe it would be enough. Too long in getting there. I'll be okay, though, and probably better for making a decision and sticking to it.

((needsfriendshere))

So glad to hear you are doing well and have peace following the Restorative Prayer.

God is moving and prayer is very effective.

There is a ministry called Restored to Freedom out of Carmel IN. The person who runs it, Nelson Schuman has now written 5 books dealing with physical, emotional, and spiritual healing, loving difficult people, etc. The first book is named after the name of the Ministry.

It is also having success with Marriages being restored.

The Founder of the ministry is available by phone, a video chat, and in person. He has been working with people all over the US and in other countries since he became director of healing rooms at a church in Central IN a year ago.

I don't want to run afoul of the rules of SI.

If you are your spouse are struggling, I would seek God's guidance if you should look into this Ministry farther and contact it's founder.

Strongheart, The only thing that comes close to God addressing masturbation I read in the Old Testament. It made reference that a man should not spill his seed on the ground. I couldn't tell you where in the Old Testament I read it through.

[This message edited by hihn at 12:24 AM, November 4th (Friday)]

Strongheart (and Hihn),

I only know of that one reference as well. But like Steadychevy said, I don't think that means it is a sin per se. If I recall, it made the man unclean in terms of entering God's temple. In the Old Testament, there were hundreds of laws and man basically had to be perfect to be "with" God. There were foods he couldn't eat, things he couldn't touch, he couldn't have just buried a loved one, and much more. The Law showed us how badly we needed a Savior - how just by being human, we could never be reconciled with God on our own. He is, after all, Holy.

With that said, God looks at our heart. What is our intent if we touch ourselves (or our mate) in that way? Are we hurting anyone? Now we can eat pork, shellfish, and beef with milk. Now we can "be" with God after we go to a funeral or touch a leper. Maybe now masturbation, in and of itself and if done with a pure heart, is ok too? Before Christ, there was no heart to heart connection between us and our God. Now we are grafted to Him - if we feel no shame, no condemnation, and we are hurting no one, then I guess it's ok. I wish I could ask why you are asking this!!

Hugs to you Strongheart! You are always in my prayers. You all are...

First time to post in this forum.

Strongheart, are you thinking about your spouse when you do this? If not, then it is a sin, because you have lust in your heart for someone other than your spouse. If it is with your spouse or you are thinking about your spouse, that's awesome. The bible puts it plainly, that if you even look at another person in that way, it's a sin.

Matthew 5:28

but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Wool94,

Yes! Well put. Again, it's a matter of what's in our hearts and if what is in our hearts falls into the realm of sin or not.

Covetousness, adultery? Sin

Pleasurable acts performed in God-ordained (therefore harming no one) circumstances? Not sin, therefore ok.

Welcome to our little corner of SI!

I try to always say a prayer for everyone i see show up on this site, no matter what forum.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 9:10 AM, November 8th (Tuesday)]

The restorative prayer sounds like the sozo ministry Bethal started a while back. I have had a couple of people recommend this to me.

Thank y'all very much for your honest feedback. I seem to get stuck on the ideas of lust/objectification of others and the notion of self-gratification.

Is there a way to do it without lusting/objectifying others? I understand that if it is something you are imagining about your partner, it could be considered loving, but what if you don't have a partner? Not only that, but even if it is about your partner, is it objectifying them?

...and about self-gratification...is that bad or sinful? I always thought it was for some reason, but I can't really imagine why it would be if it's not harmful to our bodies or others. In this case, as long as it isn't harmful to our minds or others (lusting, etc.), I guess it could be okay.

I wish I could ask why you are asking this!!!

Haha, you can. I am an open book my friend, and especially because I opened the topic up for discussion here. I'd be happy to explain more here, or even talk in private if you want.

Basically, I have spent the last two and half years learning myself. Learning what I like and what I don't like. Learning what I think, feel and believe. Many of the things I have struggled with have been about things that I associated with adulthood or marriage, that just totally blew up in my face on DDay. Much of that involved my sexuality.

I never felt good about the way I chose to lead my sexual life. It involved a lot of guilt, shame, "shoulds", etc. that were shaped by what my parents told me. Now that I realize how much of a people pleaser I was and how little I thought and felt for myself, I am trying to figure out what really is true and good and what really is bad and sinful. Their (my parents) ideas were a bit(italicized for sarcastic emphasis) skewed.

Overall the last couple of years, I have sought God's guidance for my beliefs and thoughts, but have gotten stuck on somethings that I either couldn't find answers to, or were too embarrassing to really discuss with others (like this one). I want to live a Godly life. I want to do what He wants me to do regardless of whether it is what society says is okay or what "feels good to me". I also don't want to let my past experiences shame me into justifying those actions by my current beliefs or actions.

Thanks again for all of your thoughts.

Strongheart,

This is honest and pretty much gets to the heart of this issue:

Is there a way to do it without lusting/objectifying others? I understand that if it is something you are imagining about your partner, it could be considered loving, but what if you don't have a partner? Not only that, but even if it is about your partner, is it objectifying them?

...and about self-gratification...is that bad or sinful? I always thought it was for some reason, but I can't really imagine why it would be if it's not harmful to our bodies or others. In this case, as long as it isn't harmful to our minds or others (lusting, etc.), I guess it could be okay.

I don't feel we are objectifying our partners if we fantasize about them when we are brought to pleasure, whether it is through their gratifying us or if it is through self-gratification. In a weird way, I think it is an expression of our adoration for them. And that can't be bad.

But as to the core issue you brought up -

"is self-gratification bad or sinful?

", I don't think the answer is cut and dry. I have a hard time thinking it is, as a rule (partly for the above reason). But for some people...They may feel conviction over this issue because it plays too large of a role in their lives (almost an obsession), or it is done by means of pornography or other avenues that are potentially harmful to others. In those cases, yeah, there may be a problem with masturbation.

Does this answer your question or help you feel better about the issue?

Does this answer your question or help you feel better about the issue?

It does, thank you!

I posted elsewhere asking for any recommendations for a devotional. I was told I might have better results posting here.

I am interested in finding a good devotional book preferably focused on infidelity/adultery and reconciliation. One focusing on restoring marriage in general would be good too.

For info's sake, I am Protestant and theologically conservative. Past authors I have enjoyed are: John MacArthur, RC Sproul, Paul Washer, Ligon Duncan, Steven Lawson, and love the Puritans.

If you have any possible suggestions, I would really appreciate it.

There's an app called the Holy Bible by Lifechurch.TV.

It has numerous devotionals that are very helpful.

Does anyone on here listen to contemporary Christian music? If so, who are your favorite artists? I have a long list.

Casting Crowns- I can always get there message from the songs.

3rd Day - legends and fun to sing with.

Needtobreathe- such high energy,my newest favorite.

Toby Mac and all of the original DC Talk boys.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 8:34 AM, November 15th (Tuesday)]

I don't much. I'm a hymn kind of guy. I like the modern hymn style as well. But my IC suggested Lauren Daigle "I will Trust in You"

That song has been very meaningful to me

I do! I love Casting Crowns! Some of my favorite songs are by Danny Gokey and Hillary Scott. Check them out!

If you have Pandora, try "Christian Contemporary Radio" or "Praise and Worship Radio". I usually find more songs and artists I like through there.

Selah

10th Ave. North

Francesca Battistelli

Big Daddy Weave

Chris Tomlin

For King and Country

Jeremy Camp

Kari Jobe

Lauren Daigle

Mandisa

Matt Maher

Matt Redman

Matthew West

Mercy Me

Natalie Grant

Nicole C. Mullen

Phillips, Craig & Dean

Plumb

Sanctus Real

Sidewalk Prophets

I love all of those artists. I'm actually a music minister. I love the old hymns and a lot of the new stuff. I have contemporary Christian on my Pandora as well. We are also blessed to have 2 stations here. There is nothing like getting lost in giving praise. All of my troubles can go away.

[This message edited by Wool94 at 1:06 PM, November 16th (Wednesday)]

Praying for you as we enter another holiday season. This time of year is rough for me (way too many triggers)- hoping it will be filled with blessings for you!!