SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Thanks steady for confirming what I am thinking too. I am going to meet with him. It does seem to me that the church community wrapped around the sinner with lots of support and concern, which is good, but less so for me the BS. At least in my situation that's what it seems like.

Good for Dr. Dobson in warning about that! Oh man, he has been around a long time with wise advice!

Have a blessed day ALL!

Yes, Dr. Dobson has been around for a long time, PinkJeepLady. I have a picture of me lying on my back on the chesterfield with my new baby daughter lying on my chest in 1980 with the book "Dare to Discipline" by Dr. Dobson open beside me. We attended the marriage workshops "Turn Your Hearts Toward Home" by Dr. and Mrs. Dobson, so much Focus on the Family stuff, Marriage Encounter, financially supported Focus on the Family for 35 years with my WWs blessing and full participation (at least I thought so).

When I suspected possible infidelity in 2003 I found a website that directed to the BS to "love" their cheating spouse back. I didn't know if my WW was cheating or not. No proof. Perhaps it was just job stress from managing a very large new project. Anyway thatadvice made things very easy for my WW. She got on anxiety medication (because of job stress), her husband was treating her very well - vacations, antique shopping, etc and not being an asshole demanding to know her whereabouts, why I could never reach her by phone, why she was home so late often.

I wish I would have read Dr. Dobson's book "Love Must Be Tough" then. I saw it in our Christian book store but, even though it was in the relationship section thought it was about tough love for rebellious children which I didn't need for our three daughters. That book might have changed things so greatly in the last 13 years. The years from 2002 to 2013 were years of panic, dispair, uncertainty and undoubtedly a great deal of denial. I almost believed her lies because I wanted to plus I always believed her. When she told me something I assumed it was the truth. And she could look me in the ye and lie and swear before God and lie without batting an eye. So I must be paranoid, hyper jealous for no reason, controlling, manipulative, etc.

Sorry about the dialogue. I just was going to comment on Dr. Dobson. A remarkable man.

PinkJeepLady ...wade fishing with my brother was GREAT! I just fished....he caught! Smile.

It has been my observation that the church community that I'm familiar with, at least, is quick to get to the "forgive and forget" mode. Often there seemed to be comments like see how hard he/she is working, how sorry they are, how repentant they are.

Solid.

I got really bad advice from my Pastor. The whole "see how well she is doing? You MUST forgive her.

Meanwhile she took her EA to PA....then another DD.

"Well, dang. I was wrong. I'm so sorry".--Pastor.

Gotta watch the religious spirit....it's often counterproductive and is so when it diverges from the true Gospel.

Why did I listen? Cause of two main reasons. 1. He is a Pastor. 2. What he was advising felt REALLY good to my f'ed up CoD pattern! Smile

I called a Christian hotline....they had a Christian therapist call me back. First thing he did was pray. Second was to tell me to get, read and apply Love Must Be Tough by Dobson.

It is solid advice.....only wished I had found SI. While the book is solid. I really needed to communion with folks who have walked in thus same valley. Even then I've struggled to do it.

But when I succeed it feels and factually IS great.

"Dare to Discipline"!!! Takes me back to the early 80's with my babies! I am going to check out "love must be tough", I bet it's great. I remember going to some focus on the family events as well.

Our religious leader shared with us that he overcame a porn addiction many years ago. It was very helpful to my H to have that Understanding and encouragement from him. Our leader has been very sympathetic to me, but I just don't think he gets the devastation of infidelity entirely. I need to talk to him because I feel unrest about where we are.

In this crazy journey I have found a deeper relationship with God. I have felt his comfort throughout my life, but even more so since DD, I do know he has carried me over many rough patches.

Finding SI has been a lifesaver for me too. I especially appreciate this thread - it's humbling to me that people who I don't really know are praying for me?! It's also humbling and a special privilege to pray for all who ask for prayers in their behalf. So, please put in your requests people!

Inviting others in.

Into-me-see (intimacy)....that's what we are hard wired to seek. It's what I sought in porn, it's what my wife sought in adultery. Desire to connect and truly be known is GOOD!!!! Satan knows this and uses temptation to go about feeding that Gid given desire in really unhealthy ways

I think we first have to invite God fully into us. While He knows everything about us, we have to choose to share all of ourselves with him, especially all of the wounded and scared and broken places within us and allow a fully intimate relationship with Him.

We also have to have intimacy with ourselves, that means exploring those hidden broken scared places that we desperately try to not go to and look at and to feel. How can we allow God to heal us if we aren't looking at those places with Him and consciously allowing Him to grieve with us, accept His grace and mercy and forgiveness (through acceptance of Christ and his death and resurrection in sacrifice for our sins)? Then we must allow Him to help us change us.

And we have to allow others to see the real us, including our struggles to allow God fully into our lives and to get to know ourselves. Allowing others into how God is working in us, allows God to love and support us with human skin and arms.

Being in relationship with others was part of God's plan. He says in Gen. 2:10 (NIV) "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

Being in an intimate relationship with God was also part of His original plan. God walked in the garden and interacted with Adam and Eve until they fell for Satan's deception and disobeyed God and allowed sin and shame and fear to enter the world.

The most dangerous neighborhood in the world is isolated in our own minds, where we allow Satan to whisper deception and to fan the flames of shame and guilt and fear. We were never meant to be alone and isolated and to live in fear. We are told in the New Testament to fear not for God is with us. We are also told to renew our minds daily. I believe that in order for us to fear not and to renew our minds daily we have to be in an intimate relationship fully known by God and knowing what God wants us to know in relationship with him.

Satan desperately works to come between us and God. Satan knows that if we are in an intimate relationship with God, we will realize the power we have over Satan and he will be under our feet instead of between us and God.

Adultery is one of Satan's most powerful weapons against man. Adultery causes so much pain and doubts within us that we question why God allowed it to happen. Truth is God didn't allow the adultery to happen, our spouses allowed it to happen via deception and woundedness and the free will God has given to each of us.

It is painful to change and to look at ourselves and to allow God in. So, we choose to go back to our unhealthy ways of coping with stress, etc which allow more sin and pain into our lives and into the lives of those around us.

Catching up on this thread. :) Funny PinkJeep, after I read your post a page back, the first thing that popped into my head was Love must be tough and then saw someone beat me to it. :) While that book is written specifically about infidelity, I find it's applicable in many relationships and situations. Sometimes the most loving thing to do is firmly hold our boundaries. Have you ever seen the show Intervention? I think about that book any time I see it when the family members enable an addict out of "love." Jesus himself showed tough love. Always loving, He didn't sugar coat. The gospel passage of the rich young man comes to mind:

Looking at the man, Jesus felt genuine love for him. “There is still one thing you haven’t done,” he told him. “Go and sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

At this the man’s face fell, and he went away sad, for he had many possessions.

Jesus had genuine love for the man but the man walked away sad. I think the problem in this world is often we equate love with happiness. When we hit valleys and the happiness fades, love does too, so we tend to try to keep everyone happy out of love. But that's a terribly selfish understanding of love. And impossible for our spouse to ever accomplishment. I cringe every time I read "I love you but I'm not IN love with you." Well, then you don't actually love your spouse so the whole statement is a lie. What would be true to say is, You no longer make me feel happy and I'm selfish so I'm going to go look for it elsewhere. But that doesn't sound as good.

Other things that make me cringe:

Only a fool lets regrets of the past and worries of the future steal the peace of the present.

Blake, always challenging me. I admit that this past week has been so hard for me and I feel like I'm failing God. This week, I want a divorce. And the reason I want a divorce has absolutely nothing to do with today. It has to do with 20 years of pain and bitterness and selfishness and betrayal on both sides. It was all of those things way before the infidelity. We've had a very hard relationship. Got together in high school and pregnant in our teens. We were young and stupid. Most people move on from their first few serious relationship so they get to learn from those immature decisions and then leave them in the past. Well, we were babies when we got together. And we have 20 years of bad decisions and hurt to sift through. Our marriage has been tumultuous. I remember before all of this, we got out for a rare date night. We talked and I cried into my entree over the state of our marriage. So it isn't like I have the good memories to fall back on. Not that there aren't any, it just feels like the bad has so far outweighed the good. When I said for better or worse, I didn't realize most of my life would be worse.

So yes, the magnitude of the horrible ways we've treated each other through the years is hard for me to look away from and it's destroying my present. Why is letting go so hard? Anyway, just wanted to admit my struggles. I'm embarrassed about them and feel like I should be a better person but focusing on the magnitude of my failures and the hurts that I've endured serve only to keep me stuck which is definitely not from God. Prayers always appreciated!

Rosie -

It feels like he suddenly picked religion b/c it teaches that God is forgiving, that all sins will be forgiven. STBX forwarded me an email yesterday that was a story about how God forgives all sins (he sent and said similar things right after dday). And although I want to be graceful about this, I can't help but feel he's throwing it in my face.

Someone who wields the gospel like a weapon misses the point. Why is He focused on you and what you need to do? I'd bet because he can't stand to focus on himself. When I converted it changed the way I perceived the gospels. I felt a deep and devastating feeling of how hugely I'd failed God and how enormous it is that even at my worst, He didn't abandon me, He continued to call me. The story of the prodigal son took on new meaning. The story of the woman who bathed Jesus's feet with her tears and dried them with her hair took on new meaning. The story about the shepard who leaves the 99 to find the one took on new meaning. I am the one. I was lost and now am found. How could I not have gratitude for that??

And what all these passages did was make me feel more sorrow for my sins against my husband. What you're describing reminds me of men who use the bible verse: Wives be submissive to their husbands, as a way to force them to do what they want. They miss the point and what St. Paul meant.

I don't blame you for feeling upset for the way your husband is using religion as it benefits him. Probably best to ignore him but a couple bible verses that would be useful for him to take to heart:

You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.

Each one should test his own actions. Then he can take pride in himself, without comparing himself to somebody else, for each one should carry his own load.

Whether he actually found religion or not, he's not acting in a Christian way toward you.

Prayers and peace to everyone! This road is hard!

It does seem to me that the church community wrapped around the sinner with lots of support and concern, which is good, but less so for me the BS.

God is alive and well in the church.....but so is satan. Doesn't it make sense that after the bomb of adultery goes off in a M that satan would do everything he can to deceive people about the extent of the damage?

Not that adultery is NOT destructive enough on its own to the M and family, but why pass on an opportunity to "deal the deal".

It was upon extremely poor advice that I embraced my CoD nature, enabling my wife to choose further destructive actions that actually caused more wounding. "More divorces occur because of the choices the WS makes AFTER the original discovery than from the A itself".

Look at SI. See the relationship between a quickly remorseful spouse and those of us married to ones that hold on to the lie and deception that "their A was special".....which ties into the other big lie that "my affair was a one-off bad-choice....and since it ended we just need to work on our M. By the way....that means YOU need to change, cause I wouldn't have cheated if YOU were better."

Dang if my Pastor didn't tell me to court her again.

Dang if it didn't FEEL like the Christian thing to do.

Dang if it didn't allow my wife to fancy herself "quite a catch".

Dang if it didn't allow bitterness and resentment into my life.

Dang if it didn't make that cute, too friendly waitress at a cafe seem like a good idea.

Ultimately....dang if the church message I got kept me/us blind to the truth.

Love = Truth + Grace and mercy

Jesus loved......but he never denied the truth. God himself called out adultery like none other sin, mentioning it as one in which D was an option. That wasn't by accident. I don't know all the reasons for this but it's conceivable that God knows how some of "the church" will advise after a DD.

God himself called out adultery like none other sin, mentioning it as one in which D was an option. That wasn't by accident. I don't know all the reasons for this but it's conceivable that God knows how some of "the church" will advise after a DD.

God intimately knows the pain of betrayal. He suffers it everyday and has since Lucifer and some of the angels were cast out of heaven. The book of Hosea reflects betrayal and infidelity.

Sorry about the dialogue. I just was going to comment on Dr. Dobson. A remarkable man

Steadychevy...never apologize for dialogue. Great men like Dobson, Eldredge, and Cloud DO express themselves well and help convey the common sense some of us lack. But it does nothing but help further their wisdom as others put it into practical application in their lives what they express. And even helps when you DON'T do what they know is true.....and you share THAT experience. I know its made me feel like less of a freak because of it! smile.

Parables. A great learning aid and one that works extremely well for me. We have the Word of God, but even that is enriched by real life applications of it.....success's and failure.

Henry Ford---

"In all of life you have 3 choices.

1. Do the right thing.

2. Do the wrong thing.

3. Do nothing.

And two of those choices are good choices."

I see my walk with Christ, my relationship with God through him in much the same way.

"Doing nothing" is NOT the same as "being still".

Snipers in elite military teams are experts in "being still", yet are some of the most effective warriors on the battle field.

I see "doing nothing" as "giving up hope and desire." I see "being still" as staying engaged in the battle, primed to take action when it is right, but in the meantime you trust God is actively "in play"....largely in ways you can't see.

This is where FAITH is grown.

I think we first have to invite God fully into us.

Dang, BrokenheartedWif...did this hit me hard.

I see very clearly how I kept God out. How I didn't trust him. How I trusted my own self....and how that whole dynamic proved useless in spiritual warfare. I was a boy plinking cans in my back yard while my "house" was being set on fire.

....I also see how my OWN earthly father\son relationship turned me against God. The abuse and abandonment taught me to not trust in others. My Mom's divorce, hatred for my Dad and all other men, taught me that "Men are human version 1.0 and Women are human version 2.0". My whole framework was faulty and built on sand.

I literally believed this lie....

"Men cheat, women don't."

I mean I SWORE this was true. Thats why I needed ultra firm boundaries with all other women and why my wife needed none. I feel foolish now....

This also tied into my CoD pattern of living...believing I had to do do do to receive any love. Boy howdy, does that screw with how you can perceive God....who IS love.

Once I was saved I started to see the truth.....but then satan noticed that and worked within the church to tempt me back into a "driven man" state of mind. I was redoing the church kitchen, sitting on the board of trustees, active in Childrens Church, attended Wed bible study, usher, VBS. It seemed so right....but turned out to be "more of the same." for ME.

"On the way to God I met Service and got distracted.....and I failed to continue on my way to God."

God intimately knows the pain of betrayal.

yes.

And not in the way I thought before either.

I imagined this "knowing" as I "know" of famine in Africa. Its real, its sucks, I feel bad for them.

NOW I see the humanity in God through Jesus. Haven't grasped the "all man and all God in one" concept fully....but I do see now that Jesus was human too.

He bent nails as he learned to swing a hammer.

He messed in his diaper.

He wasn't quoting scripture at 1 day old.

He hungered and thirst, he got cut and bled.

And like you pointed out....he knows through EXPERIENCE the pain of betrayal. I have betrayed him.

Yet he loves me.

He loves me MORE than to "just" take this pain away. He continues to offer me healing through growing.

Some days I wish my heart would not hurt so much. But on most days I see that pain as a motivator for change in my life.

At 4 years in I wonder if D is not in my future. I am tempted to believe I have a non-remorseful wife and one that is close to choosing adultery again, or growing so bitter and hard hearted that real intimacy will not take root within her.

NOTICE these are feelings, not facts. But discovering snap chat and a noticeable lack of action on her part to ferret out the "whys" behind that choice and her subsequent choices to look for a full time job and a rental property is unnerving.

"The heat of the moment" was the quick answer as the job search and rental house took place the day I expressed the serious pain my discovery caused me.

She and I both know that is not acceptable and her pattern of choices are hurtful to her, me and our family.

I am visiting with God on how to proceed.

I understand her trust issues and how she views a "father" are similar to mine....but appear far more entrenched. But understanding is not condoning.........

BS

I see very clearly how I kept God out. How I didn't trust him. How I trusted my own self....and how that whole dynamic proved useless in spiritual warfare. I was a boy plinking cans in my back yard while my "house" was being set on fire.

....I also see how my OWN earthly father\son relationship turned me against God. The abuse and abandonment taught me to not trust in others. My Mom's divorce, hatred for my Dad and all other men, taught me that "Men are human version 1.0 and Women are human version 2.0". My whole framework was faulty and built on sand

.

I understand her trust issues and how she views a "father" are similar to mine....but appear far more entrenched. But understanding is not condoning.........

We tend to forget that one of the names of God is "Abba Father: The One Who Is Your Father"

Both my SAWS and I are working on trusting God fully and allowing Him to be our Father. God is always willing, we have to let Him in and let Him be for us. Through this mess, I have found it helpful to get curl up in God's arms at night if I'm very troubled. This has allowed me to sleep without nightmares from this mess.

I'm still working on letting God into me and me discovering who I am and who God created me to be. It's a long slow process, but God is so every patient and faithful with me in the journey.

Prayer request please! I don't even know what is happening. We got into an argument on the way to counseling no less, FWH has not come home since - 2 nights ago- or reached out to me.

I just need prayers to help me know what to do from here.

Thank you friends.

Sending prayers, PJL. For strength, clarity of thought and that you will find guidance for how to proceed.

Sending prayers, PJL. For strength, clarity of thought and that you will find guidance for how to proceed

Praying the above for you PJL. Are you taking care of yourself?

Prayers PJL.

Guided therapy into new marital territory is often needed and wise to seek. Satan knows this and will thwart efforts to seek it out.

He's all about stealing, killing and destroying joy.....joy feeds hope....hope feeds your soul.

Adultery appeared to create joy and start that healthy cycle I just mentioned. Only it was a lie, a deception.

DONT LET HIM DECIEVE YOU!!!!

You are stronger than you think and not as alone as you feel.

Make one joyful choice NOW!! Good song, favorite teddy bear, walk in nature......something that brings BEAUTY FRONT AND CENTER!!!

This WORKS!

Only Two things pierce the heart deeply....affliction and beauty. Both open your heart to God. Satan thinks pain opens your heart to him. WRONG. We choose to be bitter and allow our hearts to harden.....both reduce our ability to bond and grow closer to God.

A bitter jaded harden heart works in satans favor....the more our hearts go this direction the more easily we fall for deceptive techniques of the evil one.

And without our hearts fully engaged we are easy prey for the evil one.

Gods all about rescue and restoration!

[This message edited by blakesteele at 2:16 PM, July 14th (Thursday)]

I thought I would repost this from Facebook.

The Freedom of Forgiveness

As those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion…bearing with one another, and forgiving each other, whoever has a complaint against anyone; just as the Lord forgave you, so also should you.

-Colossians 3:12-13

Many of us today find ourselves on a leash. The links in the chain are anger, bitterness, resentment, and revenge. All these, however, come down to one thing—unforgiveness. Unforgiveness holds us hostage, and when we try to pull away, it pulls us right back and we find ourselves prisoners of what someone else has done to us or perhaps what we have done to ourselves.

Most of us think forgiveness is a good idea until we have to give it. Forgiveness does not mean approving a wrong or excusing an evil. Forgiveness isn’t necessarily the reconciliation of a relationship. The Greek word translated forgiveness literally means “to release.” Forgiveness is our choice to release a person from an obligation for a wrong committed against us. In the New Testament times, the word was used when canceling a debt.

Why is there a struggle in our hearts to forgive what someone did? Because there is a bill out there that has not been paid. We insist on being paid, yet years go by, and the offender won’t pay the bill. But God says to forgive one another because He paid the greatest bill—the bill of our sin debt—with His own Son. If we can be the recipients of such great forgiveness, we need to learn how to offer forgiveness to others. When we do, we discover that we are the ones who have been set free.

For His kingdom,

Tony Evans

Thank you my friends for your prayers in our behalf. We had one of the most sincere and deep conversations tonight than we have for ages. And it was calm and peaceful!!!

FWH recognized self destructive thoughts that seemed to have been authored by Satan himself. We talked about the fears we each have and our needs to feel safe and protected with each other.

He shared some insight with me that I had never heard before about his thinking process during infidelity. He recognized he had strayed from his faith in God and was instead listening to untrue confusion and chaos.

I had written down many things to discuss and I was able to express them with clarity and calmness. We talked about FWH's reaction of running away from uncomfortable topics and how what he just did for the past 2 days was unacceptable. I felt his apologies were sincere and heartfelt.

We have our next MC appointments scheduled and FWH said he will do the homework he was assigned. This morning as I was walking our dog alone I saw a beautiful sunrise over the mountains and felt God filling my soul with peace and patience. I felt an overwhelming love for FWH which at first was confusing because I was pretty upset with him. I know those feelings were answers to many prayers.

I did get clarity that my efforts in R haven't been wasted, it's been the right thing to do, but my gosh - hardest thing I have ever done for sure!

I so appreciate all your support and wise advice in my behalf. Thanks for lifting me up and letting me lean on you a bit in my struggles. You guys are the best!

Thanks for the update PJL...

peace is a wonderful feeling...it comes in so many ways...especially if our eyes and mind are open to it...

I pray for all of us ...and in light of what happened in France...the world needs our prayers...

There is never a reason NOT to pray...and as hard as life can be I try and be thankful for today....