SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I have heard the idea of divorce as a magic reset button for a marriage after A here and think it's the dumbest idea ever. Getting divorced isn't going to fix what's wrong with the marriage. It's what you do when the issues aren't fixable.

If I understand discernment correctly, it's the process of determining your true vocation in the Church. The accepted lay vocations are marriage or unmarried celibacy. Yet you mentioned recently that he asked you about an open marriage and constantly agitates for divorce. I'm having a hard time sorting through this. How can he be devout enough to have these relatively esoteric concerns about sacramental validity -- and yet propose sexual behaviors that the Church clearly defines as a mortal sin?

Is your MC a faith based counselor? I feel like some of this falls into place if he's trying to get the therapist to accept a religious rationale for ending the marriage. After all, you've expressed a willingness and even determination to D under certain conditions, so it isn't you that he needs to convince.

It doesn’t sound like your husband is obsessing about the affair, has mind movies, etc. It sounds to me like your current marital problems, and the issues you both have with each other, which you are working through, are the same ones you had pre A. However, the A has provided a previously closed platform to have these discussions.

I’m not saying that your A was good in that it has opened up communication. Instead, I’m saying that your current marital problems sound kind of like "normal ones," if that’s not too obtuse a way of saying it. Meaning, it seems that with both of you going to IC snd MC, much if not all of this can be worked out over time.

To me, your husband is simply posturing about D, annulment, discernment, etc. I’m guessing that he wants R but doesn’t want to show vulnerability and wants to protect himself. However, he would like to be vulnerable with you.

Point of order:

He blew me off and I ended up slapping him

Why did this comment go completely ignored? Why is it perfectly ok for a woman to assault a man? Is there a single soul here that could imagine this fact getting ignored if the genders were reversed??

Truly disappointing here SI.

Why did this comment go completely ignored? Why is it perfectly ok for a woman to assault a man?

Honestly, I missed it. This is a pretty dense thread on a range of topics. There is a lot of text. I don’t think anyone here condones intimate partner violence of any kind.

Seems to me though that you’re just as much of a member of this community and just as capable as anyone else at addressing the issue if you’d like to see it addressed. Seems strange to be disappointed in the community for not doing something you didn’t do yourself.

Why did this comment go completely ignored? Why is it perfectly ok for a woman to assault a man?

Seems to me though that you’re just as much of a member of this community and just as capable as anyone else at addressing the issue if you’d like to see it addressed. Seems strange to be disappointed in the community for not doing something you didn’t do yourself.

He just did.

Honestly, I missed it. This is a pretty dense thread on a range of topics. There is a lot of text.

Way to minimize the assault. And great job perpetuating the evil of society ignoring female-on-male violence. Such violence is dismissed most of the time because males are generally bigger. So "might makes nothing burger", right?

I don’t think anyone here condones intimate partner violence of any kind.

You won’t condone but this assault doesn’t even rise to the level of being mentionable, or, in your case, even noticeable.

Seems to me though that you’re just as much of a member of this community and just as capable as anyone else at addressing the issue if you’d like to see it addressed. Seems strange to be disappointed in the community for not doing something you didn’t do yourself.

Ok, I’ll say it: shame on you OP for slapping him. Have you deeply apologized for this? Have you told your H you’d support him pressing charges if he felt like he should? Have you promised under NO circumstances will you ever physically abuse him again?

Gr8ful- I can’t tell whether this is a sensitive issue for you personally or if you’re trying to pick a fight with me (perhaps because you didn’t like something I wrote on a different thread). Regardless, there is no fight to be had. We are on the same side of this. I don’t think slapping a partner is healthy or warranted regardless of the size or sex of either partner.

I was not involved in this thread at the outset. I engaged with OP the other day on a different thread and then something she posted more recently in this thread tied seemed to tie in. I was on my phone and skimmed her previous (yes, very lengthy and dense) posts and did not see the line you referenced.

I will admit that I have a sensitivity here. I’ve been assaulted by my wife - while driving and she nearly caused a crash. And nobody cares - cuz I’m a dude and "I wasn’t in any real danger" so who cares right?

I’ll admit that I’m sick and tired of the double standard here. And please don’t tell me that there isn’t one.

Now the question is: will OP ever address this?

Hi everyone,

Thanks again for the posts. I was in a shame hole/ anxiety attack/ busy (recovering and catching up on chores when I wasn't being incapacitated by the anxiety) over the weekend and didn't have the bandwidth for posting.

As for the assault, yes I apologized. PROFUSELY. We were able to work through it and come to terms with it.

It happened when we were dating in college. I was in a strange city without my own friends (Boston), my then BF ditched me for another girl. The same girl who expressed interest in doing sexual favors for him and whom he had more emotional intimacy with than I was comfortable with. I was living there with him for a month between college and my job starting. I had less than a few hundred bucks to my name and insecure about driving 12hrs by myself with my stuff home. It was a huge betrayal of my trust. He could easily have slept with her, she offered for him to come over- HE DID and STAYED THE NIGHT. He asserts to this day that nothing happened, but I have a hard time believing it. Drunk college students who had a "thing" for each other and her being a "source of comfort" to him... yeah.

Not excusable. We've dealt with it and over come it. It's still on my mind as his inappropriately intimate (emotionally) behavior has continued off and on throughout our marriage.

gr8ful, I am so sorry your wife assaulted you. It is really disgusting how our system is rigged to just shrug off things when it's woman-on-man violence. You didn't deserve the physical violence, any more than my BH did when we were dating.

Dude:

To me, your husband is simply posturing about D, annulment, discernment, etc. I’m guessing that he wants R but doesn’t want to show vulnerability and wants to protect himself. However, he would like to be vulnerable with you.

This is it, right on the money. We both have deep issues being vulnerable with each other- him because he wasn't taught to deal with his emotions (his family stuffs them or ignores them) and from being so hurt by my anger, resentment and anxiety over the years.

I do believe he wants to R, it's why I'm hanging on. The IC and MC are ongoing and he's making progress. The thing about "waiting it out until he changes" is because I am still making changes myself. We both have a lot of growth to do and we seem to be making progress individually. BH has recently admitted to his expectations being too high for my energy level. He's shared that with my anxiety and depression, he's been disappointed repeatedly over the years with my ability to contribute to his need for joyful companionship. Progress. Hopefully he can explore the environment that exacerbated that and his role in it. Perhaps he can also look into his own entitlements when it comes to luxury goods... it's his journey, and he's got to walk it a step at a time. Just as I do.

Progress together is dicey though... I have a TON of PTSD around the unsafe financial practices of our earlier marriage. We definitely are NOT on the same page and don't see things eye-to-eye. This weekend's anxiety attack was brought on from my own stuffing of my anxiety from unpaid bills. We're saving every scrap of cash to get through the closing costs of the refi. It's going to save us $800/mo. It's a major piece of the "financial health" puzzle and a big deal to obtain- it frees up a TON of cashflow to catch up on other debts and start saving in a serious manner.

Still, all that said, we've had to delay paying bills this month (closing is HOPEFULLY next week, barring any more delay). We've got shut off notices in the mail again and I HATE being late on anything. It's put me right back into the place of feeling helpless and vulnerable to not having gas or electricity again. We're low on groceries and didn't have some basic staples for the house. BH came to me and said he was going to take the kids to get their school snacks for the week. I said that was fine. I wasn't comfortable coming to him and saying, "hey, we need eggs, milk, cheese and bread" because I knew he was trying to be tight with money and conserve cash. We have a history of arguing over what is "essential" and him criticizing my grocery shopping as "getting non-essentials" when I buy things like cleaning supplies.

Anyway, he was about to leave and I was anxiety cleaning. I told him I needed eggs, etc. He was taken aback because I had originally appeased him and said "only snacks is fine" when it wasn't. We got into a big argument about me not being honest and me not feeling safe about getting basic needs met. He threw around phrases like, "you're the only one who needs eggs!" Really? He east hardboiled eggs for breakfast, my daughter like sunny side up eggs and I eat eggs for breakfast all the time. The argument on his side with that was, since I'm the only one who sees them as a need, why is it really a need right now.

Belittling, shaming and down playing my need for basic care. I once had an anxiety attack over buying pads for my period- again, trying to skimp by. I'm not honest with him, I have anxiety attacks and snap at him and he in turn belittles, shames and disrespects me.

We then got into it about how the whole day is wasted again by my anxiety. How it's not his job to manage my anxiety (it's not) and how he's continually disappointed by these draining weekends. All I heard was, "your needs aren't important, you're a disappointment and your anxiety is a drain on me." Fun. So yeah, spent the rest of the day until that afternoon sobbing and crying and hyperventilating.

We eventually did go out and get eggs... sigh.

BSR:

Is your MC a faith based counselor? I feel like some of this falls into place if he's trying to get the therapist to accept a religious rationale for ending the marriage.

Our MC is a secular Jewish man, so, he's not Catholic, but understands people who have faith and how important that is in our mental makeup.

I think when BH is having a hard time, he's trying to convince himself that he can annul/divorce me. It's more him teasing out whether or not it's something he needs for the whole "clean break" and restart thing.

The idea of civil divorce though was too scorched earth for my liking.

emergent8, yes I did say it in a harsh manner- that I wouldn't get back together if he did D me. The conversation absolutely could have been more constructively handled. Our MC pointed out our focus should be on vow renewal, not D/annul.

Either way, at the end of the day, if BH wants to D me, I'm not coming back. Boundary.

[This message edited by MIgander at 2:36 PM, Tuesday, January 18th]

Thanks for clarifying, Gander.

I honestly cannot wrap my head around someone who expects a $7000 watch but argues over the necessity of buying eggs and paying the utility bills. What does your MC have to say about that? It's a level of fucked up that ought to have anyone's jaw on the floor.

BSR,

It's maddening for sure and a great source of my anxiety: I don't feel safe on 2 major levels w/ BH.

Financial, and emotional.

I'm sure he's got his own...

No, I noticed that comment,about her slapping him. I didn't say anything because of the glaring hypocrisy.

HF, which hypocrisy? Mine or someone elses? I've been honest about how unacceptable slapping him was.

I honestly cannot wrap my head around someone who expects a $7000 watch but argues over the necessity of buying eggs and paying the utility bills. What does your MC have to say about that? It's a level of fucked up that ought to have anyone's jaw on the floor.

Having been married to a man that was fine with "us" spending all the money I made on what "we" (him actually) wanted, this is a sore spot for me. This right here would be enough for me to walk. MiGander not saying "you should d" over this, but I DO think that this subject needs to be brought up and discussed with your MC. Financial disparity to this level is hard to deal with even in an M w/o infidelity in it, I can only imagine it's even more so in your situation, given everything that's going on right now.

I will admit that I have a sensitivity here. I’ve been assaulted by my wife - while driving and she nearly caused a crash. And nobody cares - cuz I’m a dude and "I wasn’t in any real danger" so who cares right?

gr8ful I am so sorry this happened to you. And it is a cryin shame that they system does not put woman-on-man domestic violence on the same footing as m-o-w DV, because imho there is no difference. It's not okay no matter who the perpetrator is.

The hypocrisy in which the way abuse is discussed on these forums.

If a BS slaps their WS, after months or years of infidelity, broken NC, more affairs,continued lying, the WS is told abuse is never ok, and they must leave the BS,because they are now unsafe.

Yet,it's commonly accepted here that infidelity is abuse. And, every day, we help BS stay with their abuser,if the abuser gets help to no longer be an abuser.

But the BS must be left. They're unsafe.

It's also largely ignored when the woman is the one who delivered a slap. As evident in this thread.

If abuse is abuse..why are we telling people it's ok to work it out with their abuser,because the abuser is sorry?

I don't know. I guess certain forms of abuse are ok? The whole thing has really been bothering me lately. It's something I'm working on.

Aside from that, I loved Ellie's post..

You are worthy of love and affection. You are worthy of a partner that is willing to work with you to build a better M from this. You are worthy of being treated with respect and honesty. You are worthy of being forgiven.

I very much agree with this. You've been doing the work. He hasn't. He is also a wayward. If he isn't going to do the work, no amount of work on your part is going to make any difference in your marriage. It will make a difference in YOU, but the marriage will remain a stinky mess, because he won't clean up his side.

I think you might benefit from your H going to a therapist who deals directly with financial problems as you described.

The emotional part can be handled through IC and marriage counseling. These are two big items and I’m not sure the regular counseling route is sufficient to deal with his financial issues.

Maybe you can research a financial counselor and then broach the topic with him directly or at MC.

I’m not sure the regular counseling route is sufficient to deal with his financial issues.

The issue is he has trust fund money enough to buy $7k watches, but won't contribute to paying household bills on time and expects OP to do all that. That's not just a 'financial issue' imho. That's just acting not right and like a responsible adult.