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Proper anger isn’t necessarily bad. Anger drives action. I’m not suggesting being Mr Angry and breaking walls and stuff. You are an abuse victim and feelings of anger are what you *should* have. Listen, I’m not suggesting you are doing anything wrong. I’ll be honest, it kind of feels a little rug sweepy.

Atleast half the retellings of people’s stories here have model spouses after discovery that are not model people. Those are kind of crappy odds aren’t they? Admittedly this forum may have a little selection bias if you’re analyzing it for trends, but poke around here a bit and you’ll see common themes start to emerge.

I’m a tech guy. I can give you 500 other ways to contact an affair partner that do not involve tracking a phone bill or following phone location. If you worked for me running an analysis on a device I’d suggest that were being negligent. Checking for app battery usage, hidden apps, burner phones, sharing Google Docs and appending messages there instead of texting, hidden email accounts, meetups at ‘normal’ places, leaving notes, arranging a blackout period until the smoke blows over, etc.

Remorseful wives will hate their affair partner. Yours is still so in love with her partner that she risked a call under the figurative broad daylight. That isn’t just a red flag, that’s Hilk Hogan standing on top of a mountain waving a 20’ flag while the soundtrack of Rocky IV plays over load speakers.

Forensic her phone, boil her loser lover alive (figuratively) and see how she reacts, polygraph her. You need answers and you’re not getting them. You didn’t suspect her lying for months so it’s an accepted fact that you don’t have a perfect radar for that. None of us do. That’s why there are these best practices. It’s a healthy and extremely vetted procedure that produces the best results possible under really crappy circumstances.

We are roooting for you a ton and just want to see you come out the other side a strong l, happy person who is excited to live life.

Thank you for sharing.

If you’re willing/able, please message me some
ideas/methods I haven’t used! I’m a novice still at this, but I thought my methods and tools were adequate.

Reverse phone, spokeo, both got me a full report on him. Maybe I call him from a second number myself and see what’s happened if he’s willing to talk?

I don’t want to do anything aggressive or make things worse really, but you’re right maybe I need to try something?

I also don’t think OM is married still according to a report I got on him. But maybe it’s worth a shot to call his wife/potential ex-wife?

But maybe it’s worth a shot to call his wife/potential ex-wife?

Absolutely yes.

Peter

Don’t bother with revenge. It seldom if ever pays back.

Definitely let his partner know but that’s not revenge – that’s blocking a bridge back to the affair.

If you gave her any of the several Sandwich speeches suggested then it’s not your task to check on her, but rather HER task to convince you. Despite your wish to reconcile (and I sincerely thing you are already on that path) then you should always be looking at the milestones and obstructions on the Divorce path too. Like I said: D and R run parallel for quite some time.

What you can do if you feel unsafe or uncomfortable is tell her something like:

"Honey. I told you earlier I’m getting out of infidelity. I’m still not sure if that’s with or without you. You have a totally free choice. You need to understand that I thought we were a happy couple while you were cheating with Bob, so I have no way of knowing if you are being true or not now. Just remember – you have a choice and I’m not forcing anything. But I’m getting out of infidelity. If you want to make this journey with me it’s up to YOU to convince me."

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:53 PM, Thursday, July 23rd]

@bigger

Once again you nail it.

I woke up this morning, and I was angry. Not necessarily at her, but at the situation (she definitely gets some of my righteous anger though, she's not free of that) mostly. I thought to myself as I laid in bed, slowly waking up and getting ready for work that the paths of D and R do run really closely together. The feelings that motivate both D and R are similar, and it's hard for me to see getting to the end of either of those paths at the moment. But I assume that eventually there will be that fork in the road and I have to choose which way to turn.

I'm going to wait until my wife leaves for work today to call his wife/ex-wife and see what I can learn there.

Part of me still wants to call him too, let him know that I know but I'm not sure I should.

I gave her a short version of the sandwich speech, and she saw the boxes/bins I got for moving out. I think she knows that I've got a plan for either outcome here. So you're right, it's on her to show me that she's making the effort.

Part of me still wants to call him too, let him know that I know but I'm not sure I should.

I struggled a litte bit with this. Sort of. I never had a desire to call him. He already knows I know. My desire was to craft the perfect non (legally) threatening threat and blast him. I had something typed up. Then I thought about potential outcomes. Positive, negative or neutral, there really isn't anything I could think of that would give me any sense of justice or closure, and the possible negative outcomes by far outweigh anything positive, which I struggle to even come up with anything positive. Like what? Would he befriend me? Pft. Like I'd even want that. Would he turn out to be some stand up guy, apologize, and respectfully tell me everything I want to know? I highly doubt it. Would he viciously tell me hurtful details, or worse, make shit up just to cause more pain? More likely. I shit all over his good time and he lost his girlfriend, afterall...

The closest I came to actually contacting him was when he got fired and trespassed from the company property. I had nothing to do with it, but I wanted to send him a message leading him to believe I did. I have a lot of connections with higher ups at the company he (and my wife) works(ed) for. I could easily convince him I was behind his firing, but at the end of the day, 1) it's not true, and 2) what good would it really do? Truth is, he could retaliate. I'm not concerned about anything physical, but I can imagine a venomous response laced with details, possibly made up details, that I don't have any way to verify that could cause me and my wife a lot more pain.

I just don't see any good coming from it. There may be some rare cases where a BS contacting an AP bore some fruit. Like an AP who was unaware of the spouse's marital status and was sympathetic and apologetic to the BS. That was definitely not the case with my wife's AP. He knew from the start she was married. Besides, edge cases like that are few and far between. I think in general it's just not a good idea.

Thank you friend, and noted.

I'm going to call his wife/ex-wife today. I found her number, and confirmed it's her with a reversephone report on him.

Time to see what I can do here.

That’s a great move. Do NOT let your wife know that you are. Play your cards close to the vest. You’ll soon know if no contact was really no contact. That’ll tell you everything you need to know.

That's my plan.

I hope his wife is still in the picture so I can help her, and see what I can gain from this. Let's say they're still married, I tell his wife about this...what do you think happens next? What if they're not married anymore?

I guess either way, do I not tell my wife I called her? Let his wife decide to do something about it?

[This message edited by petecarparts at 5:42 PM, Thursday, July 23rd]

You don’t tell your wife anything about contacting the wife (other betrayed spouse).

If your wife comes to you upset and angry you contacted her, that’s proof your wife and her cheater are still in contact.

Now just to be fair this cheating H could have pre-empted you by telling his wife you are a crazy H and he’s "innocent". If you can send proof - please do. If the betrayed wife blocks you or does not want to listen to you, that’s ok. At least you tried.

Honestly I would want to know and have appreciated being told on the past about the cheaters I dated.

Understood,

We'll see what happens when I call. I'll report back with that I find out.

For what it's worth, I've gotten more angry today. In the last few hours, I've found that I feel like I've been taken advantage of throughout this whole ordeal.

At what point do the wayward spouses either admit or break down from guilt? I know it's different for everyone, but I wonder if she would show those emotions/feelings unprompted or when pressure's applied? (from me, and soon)

I know wayward spouses get in the "limerence" stages, and it's hard to let go of the thing that makes you feel validated, wanted, or at all "better"...but dammit, this ****ing SUCKS.

[This message edited by petecarparts at 8:15 PM, Thursday, July 23rd]

At what point do the wayward spouses either admit or break down from guilt?

It not just a matter of when. The real issue is if, as in, will they ever have a true self reconing/realization as to the wrongness of their betrayal evidenced by true remorse with heart felt expressions of such.

What it is not:

• Alligator tears for a little while then business as usual

• The "Im sorry I hurt you" profession

• Mininizing their actions and fall out

• Rug sweeping

• Blame shifting, etc.

Accept no half-assed counterfeit efforts.

It's hard to let go of the thing that makes you feel validated, wanted, or at all "better"...but dammit, this ****ing SUCKS.

That it does sir. That it does.

Its not called the "shit sandwich" for nothin.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:07 AM, Friday, July 24th]

I'm a little over 15 months out Pete, and it still sucks. My wife has been about as much a model for R as one could hope for. Not perfect, but the effort is truly there. I think it's something you just know when you see it. I'm no longer hypervigilant or stuck on wondering if she's thinking about him or concerned about a relapse, but it still really really sucks that it happened.

I don't think I'll ever be quite the same or look at her the same again. We have a lot of good days and good times now, but it's like the memory, the cloud from her affair is always running like a background app in my mind. Sometimes it wells up and comes out. When it does I tell her and we talk it out. To her credit she doesn't deflect away or try to avoid talking about it. We deal with it right there and she sits with me and listens while I purge. Like, really listens and sits with it. I can feel her regret and remorse. It's palpable. If it weren't for that I don't know where we'd be now.

It's slowly fading with time, but I doubt it will ever truly go away. I think just ending things would likely have been easier, but damnit, I still love her, and she's done an amazing job of convincing me it's reciprocated.

She's not a typical person. I hate that the term "neurodivergent" gets tossed around so flippantly nowadays, but it does accurately and physiologically describe my wife. She had a pretty serious TBI as an infant and while it doesn't excuse, it does explain her lack of executive function and some issues with immaturity and impulse control so I always factor that in. I know they all say this, but she truly did not grasp the magnitude and permanence of her choices while she was engaging in her affair. Her ability to understand and process long term consequences is hindered. She has, however, learned a very hard lesson at my expense and I believe there will never be a repeat. She struggles sometimes, but once she learns something it's locked in. Once she picks a track she stays welded to it.

She also has very black and white thinking. On the plus side, that means her AP went from "all good" to "all bad" and downright dangerous in her mind pretty quickly. I'm now what she 100% associates with safety, love, and intimacy, and she will always associate her affair with existential dread.

Anyway, I think I'm close to a best case scenario for R and it still ain't easy. It's a rough ride and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. I hope if you attempt R things go as well as possible for you both. I think you'll know it if you see it. If you're still unsure or 2nd guessing what her motivations are or if she's really all in then something's probably not right. Don't let your guard down and pay attention to what she does. Don't stuff your feelings or feel bad for bringing it up or talking about it. For me, that's part of the healing, and gauging her reactions to are a big thing to me.

Thank you for sharing everyone.

I called his wife yesterday and left a voicemail, I may try again today. Hope to get in touch with her.

I know I need to keep my guard up and watch her behavior that's for sure.

I think after my next therapy appointment is when I'd like to have another solid conversation about things. Hell, maybe the full sandwich speech is what I'll do. The shorthand version of it seemed to hit home for her, but again...I can't operate in a vacuum, I can't make a real decision about my future with or without her without more information, confirmation of no contact, and without communication.

We'll see what happens, but again I can't thank you all enough for being here with me while I work through this.

Well, I called her number again. She told me they divorced in 2011 and that he wasn't mean or an adulterer when they were married. She rarely communicates with him too. She's sorry to hear that I'm in the situation I'm in and that I can heal from this horrible situation.

Guess I'm back to the "watch, wait and see" game. I have therapy on tuesday evening, and will do my best to make sure I'm doing what I need to take care of myself here.

[This message edited by petecarparts at 6:06 PM, Friday, July 24th]

Nm, she ended up answering after your edit.

[This message edited by OhItsYou at 6:08 PM, Friday, July 24th]

What message did you leave on her voicemail? It could be that she really doesn't want to engage with it, and if that's the case you attempted to do the right thing and I think you're absolved of any responsibility going forward.

The only thing I would question is if it was her that received the message or if it was her husband. If it's her cell phone then most likely she got the message. If she hasn't reached back (or even hung up on you) then I think you pretty much did what you could and you can let that dog lie.

You did your part. The ball's in her court now. Let's see if it gets back to your wife that you tried to contact her.

I left her a message of:

"Hello, we don't know one another but I wanted to reach out to let you know that if you're still married to (insert his name) that I found out that he and my wife had an affair. I felt obligated to reach out to you and help you get control of your situation as well."

I don't remember exactly what I said, but it was pretty close to that.

That’s really great, Pete. It was hard to do and it may not have gotten you results but it was the right thing to do. Good people are good because they choose to do the right thing even when it’s hard.