SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Troutman, I am so sorry to hear that you aren't feeling well. Hopefully things will start to get better soon💕. It's so wrong what our WS have done to us while they move on without a thought or care at all!I had a rough week last week. It definitely is up and down. Try to get some rest if you can and try to do something that you enjoy when you are up to it. I had Covid in July and I tested positive even more than a week after so don't be discouraged if you test positive even after a week. I'm sending you positive thoughts for sleep tonight. Maybe do a meditation before you go to sleep?

All I can offer is prayers and to think happy things.
The feeling of being tired of being tired. I hear you (hearing impaired no pun intended). I found mild exercise and a good IC to talk through the shit show.
In relation to the thoughts of the characters of the POS. It takes a special low person to put themselves higher on the food chain over committed relationships the fact their are children, extended families on both sides not to mention the moral aspect of the cheating for self gratification.
Again a good IC can talk you through more. I know what I want to get across

Thanks everyone. The COVID hasn't been so bad; basically like a bad cold. Feel pretty good today. The last time I had it about a year ago I got super fatigued and was a little more sick.The only reason I even got tested was because I was around MIL and FIL on Saturday.

I've surpisingly slept a little better last few nights. Maybe it helps being sick.

In other news, my oldest has now spoken to her. She called him, he missed it and called her back. It was not pretty... He was here at my house at the time and took the call in the back yard. I wasn't evesdropping but I still heard plenty with the windows open. He went after her hard. Still no empathy for what I have been through. He said to me afterward it went from her crying hysterically to talking almost detatched, like she was reading from prepared note, or almost like she had been coached. A lot of buzzwords he said. He said she really sounded like she's losing it, especially with her almost bi-polar demeanor change throughout the call. He's not planning to talk to her again any time soon.

MIL called me last night. FIL is in the hospital with a kidney blockage of some type. She's really worried about how he's handling all of this. She asked if I planned to tell WW about her father being in the hospital, and I said no we are NC. She assumes it will get to her via her siblings at some point. I've noticed FIL has been pretty quiet of late about the whole saga, and she says he is internalizing a lot of pain. I see it too. To my eye he looks like he's aged a lot in these last three months. I hope he's OK...

At this point I'm just so saddened. I can't even believe the collateral damage at this point.

[This message edited by Troutman523 at 5:27 PM, Friday, September 30th]

Hi, Troutman, glad you are feeling a better. I had Covid in June, and I was out of commission for two weeks then very fatigued.

It seems your son didn't sugarcoat how he feels during his talk with his mom. Your WW probably never expected her children to be this angry for so long. She should realize their entire world has been hit with a nuclear bomb, life as they knew it is gone and will never be the same.

It took my WH months before he understood the impact his A had on me, our children, his job, our friends, his sport, our finances, every aspect of our lives changed. It was the consequences of his actions that finally opened his eyes.

Hope you are sleeping a better.

Troutman:
I've read your tragic story and I can say you've done a super job of handling this. Obviously lucky to have two fine young men to help you navigate this. My best advice is to keep emotions out of any interaction with her. This is no longer a fight for or against a marriage; this is a financial transaction and your goal is to minimize anything she gets.

There is one thing you need to do ASAP. If you know where they live, hire a UHaul and pack everything she owns, including half of the Christmas decorations/ornaments, cutlery, china, cookbooks, alarm clock, gardening tools, and anything else that represents her life in your home, haul it up there, and offload it. You don't want or need any reminders.

Throw her mail in the trash; she has abandoned it. As long as she believes you'll handle things, she will continue to let you. Only do the minimum necessary to achieve your goal.

Troutman,

not that it matters but were there any signs that she was going to do this and how long has she known this horrible person ?

I ask only because it can help others here identify the signs of a walkaway wife although I think you are doing well.

This all is her loss, not yours. MOve forward. Your continued success will show her that she lost.

Let your kids make their own determinations. Don't ever be that guy who steps up for the wayward and patches things up with the kids and the wayward. Happens too much. She screwed you over. She screwed the family over.

Commonleadership is right, pack the rest of her stuff and send it to her. Erase the daily reminders of her that she has left behind. You need a clean slate.

Glad your son gave her a piece of his mind. You raised good, moral kids. Kudos

There is one thing you need to do ASAP. If you know where they live, hire a UHaul and pack everything she owns, including half of the Christmas decorations/ornaments, cutlery, china, cookbooks, alarm clock, gardening tools, and anything else that represents her life in your home, haul it up there, and offload it. You don't want or need any reminders.

I told her last time, anything left at this point is fair game for me to keep, chuck or sell. She doesn't seem to care about the life and home she's left behind. It's insane really. She's off the deep end from the way she dug her heels in with my son on the phone. Of all people if he can't get through, no one will. She's truly lost.

not that it matters but were there any signs that she was going to do this and how long has she known this horrible person ?

To have an affair and just walk away? None really, seriously. She was a little more distant/moody about the last six months before DDay. She's a tricky one to read at times, and she can get sulky especially when she has issues with her boss at work or family. Who was always there for that? Oh yeah, me...I wouldn't say she shoved me away visibly, and there were no fights. On the surface everything was reasonably normal. We certainly could have communicated better, no doubt. We were planning our 30th anniversary a few weeks before, and even had a nice round of golf just six days before DDay. The only time I noticed issues was when I'd call in the evening while away on business. She got much shorter and less talkative. Now I know why. She was with OM. Clearly she was a master of compartmentalization. To lie and decieve for that long makes you really good at that. Almost to the level of sociopathy. What normal person wouldn't crack eventually after all that?

She has known him for over twenty years, as they worked together for that long. They haven't worked together for four years. My son tells me he always had a bad vibe about the guy coveting WW.

Let your kids make their own determinations. Don't ever be that guy who steps up for the wayward and patches things up with the kids and the wayward.

They are. In fact I try not to say anything nasty. They've certainly come to their own conclusions. What a sad state of things when your children lose respect for you. I couldn't bear it.

[This message edited by Troutman523 at 3:22 AM, Monday, October 3rd]

Your WW dug in her heels while talking with your oldest. She has built up a false fortress of rationalizations and excuses to justify her lies and deception. Her infidelity. “I deserve to be happy” is a common wayward refrain. However, you will see BS report over and over again: “He/she never said they were unhappy, or tried to reach out. In fact they acted entirely happy.” It’s a fiction created to justify the unjustifiable. Faithful partners can never fathom how someone can so callously lie and deceive to the extent required to live a false double life. She will always dig her heels in and never admit that she has done anything wrong to anyone who questions her actions. Pride and arrogance prevent her from honestly looking at her brutal betrayal. Besides, she has to protect that fortress of lies at all costs. Otherwise she would have to take an honest look at the destruction and pain she selfishly caused. Let her sit in that fortress assured of her correctness. Because it is also her prison.

You are doing well. Keep moving forward. Take care of you and keep moving forward and process your pain. You will get through this and be free. She will always be locked in that prison of her own making.

The fact she left the marriage is not the issue. The fact she didn’t want to be married, didn’t want THIS relationship, didn’t want her future with you… None of those are the issue.
I have been preaching for some time that the only reason one should be married to one’s spouse is the simple fact you WANT to be married to your spouse. Anything else – kids, finances, lifestyle – are factors that might impact your decision but at the end of the day it’s all just a decision. A decision you faced when you decided to marry, and a decision most sane and reasonable people take seriously.
Marriage is commitment – not a conviction. The door out is always open IF you want the exit.

If there was some misery-o-meter that could measure a person’s emotional state then MAYBE your wife was in the red in this relationship. But due to history, family, commitment… most sane and normal people have the courage and sensibility to broach the issues and try to seek resolve BEFORE deciding that ending the relationship makes sense. Most people resolve their marital issues, many people divorce.

In an earlier post there is mention of what she sacrificed and how selfish it was of her due to the family and you. Basically OTHERS happiness. IF what she shares about her emotions and well-being in this marriage were true (and I will get back to that!) then divorce is not necessarily bad or wrong for her.

What is wrong and bad and what justifies the pain and anger all feel is the HOW.
The infidelity.
The not addressing the issue and trying to work things out.

If she could tell her sons, parents and even you that she told you of her unhappiness and you refused MC, refused change, didn’t cut down on the golf or the fishing, or drinking, or work (or whatever issue she might have had)… Well… they couldn’t really expect her to sacrifice HER happiness for theirs.

But she can’t…
Furthermore – the way she left the marriage puts into question EVERYTHING she might say about why.
Let’s try to word it this way: If she had an issue with you (say your fishing…) and it marked 3 on a scale from 1-10 on reasons she questioned the marriage… When she started her relationship with OM that 3 became a 5. Not because of anything you did, or she did to deal with it, but rather because as a 5 it’s a better excuse for coffee and make-out with OM. When the relationship with OM progressed, the fishing went from 5 to 6 to 7… When she decides to divorce… the issues that were scoring 2-3-4-5 and could possibly have been resolved ALL become 10 to her, and none was fixable. Therefore, she HAD to divorce.

To her it makes sense, to us maybe not so much. But doesn’t change the fact that they are her reasons and beliefs. She CAN divorce you and she CAN decide that her happiness can’t be found with you. She is allowed to do that. Heck… we can’t even forbid her from having her affair. Its ethically wrong – we are all 100% clear on that – but if that’s what a person wants to do then they can do it.

What is 100% definite that she didn’t do this the right way. She didn’t voice her issues, didn’t try to fix them within the marriage and didn’t end the marriage in the right, ethical way. She didn’t give the marriage – and thereby as a byproduct the family – the opportunity to heal that it should have gotten.

Frankly – I feel sorry your sons are still so angry at their mom, as are her parents. I wonder if they would want her to come back to you IF she truly can’t find happiness in a marriage with you. I get the anger at the how and the pain it causes, but I honestly don’t see it as the role of other to keep a person in a marriage they don’t want.
I get the anger – I get that they are pissed off at her. Dont expect them to be happy with her new man, new apartment and all that – but at the end of the day she is their mom, their daughter, and this seems to be what she wants. I would hope that they manage some normal new relationship.

I get the anger – I get that they are pissed off at her. Dont expect them to be happy with her new man, new apartment and all that – but at the end of the day she is their mom, their daughter, and this seems to be what she wants. I would hope that they manage some normal new relationship.

But aren't these really contradictory to one another, when the entire preface of this being 'what she wants' is literally built on the betrayal of the family unit? And as a daughter, is this how you raised your child? To seek her happiness through unhealthy and destructive means?

I don't know, maybe I am a little too much eye for an eye, but why should a new normal(in any positive sense) be set for poor behavior? I'm not talking punishment by any means; I'm talking consequence. If an AP was targeting one of my parents, willfully breaking up a family unit for their own gain, and they eventually went the wayward path, the only 'normal' would be for that AP to stay 100% out of my life. As for my parent that decimated the other parent, I don't know what the new normal would be. Yes, they are my parent. Yes, I would want them to be happy. But what if the 'happy' comes at such a dangerous price? A 'happy' that is essentially unhealthy for them?

If we give ourselves that the WW was miserable in the marriage (and remember – its her experience and how she believes it that counts for her) and if "normal" methods such as talking about the issues, MC and such didn’t alleviate her misery… would we expect her to remain married to make everyone else happy? Do we really expect her to sacrifice her well-being and happiness to make her two adult sons, her aging parents, and her husband (whom she doesn’t want to be married to) happy?

I really want to stress I’m not in any way condoning her infidelity. THAT is wrong. However she always had the ability and right to end her marriage with Troutman if she was really that miserable. If she had done that CORRECTLY Troutman wouldn’t be posting on an infidelity site and would simply be one of the many dealing with a divorce for no reason of his own.

How did she betray her parents? Last time I checked marriage is between the two partners. I know for a fact I never asked my parents if I could or should marry my wife and fought hard to have my marriage for me. I actually think a major issue in many marriages is parent-involvement. Her parents can be mad at her for her decision to have an affair, and unhappy for her decision to end the marriage, but at the end-of-the-day that is her decision. There isn’t anything immoral about deciding to divorce (although how the WW got to that point might be).

As you can see I'm not big on the eye-for-an-eye thing, nor revenge. I think the world would be better if in the future both Troutman and his then-ex-wife were happy in their separate lives, and that their happiness (or unhappiness) would not be in any way connected to the happiness (or unhappiness) of the other. I do think that those that cheat have some serious moral flaws and those flaws - if not dealt with - can hinder their personal growth going forwards so the odds of the ex WW becoming miserable are higher than the odds of Mr. T finding happiness. If that does happen and if Mr. T does reflect on his ex wife's status at that point I hope it's with indifference or compassion rather than he gloat over it. Not for her sake - but because Mr. T is a good person.

A lot of us when we get married stand up before friends and family and vow to make a tough choice. That choice is not to leave. That is what a marriage vow is. There is no other reason to get married. None. Especially now a days. When you break that vow you break the relationships that are connected to that vow, and people have the right to be angry, grieve how they wish. It is the death of a possible future. It also cheapens past memories as just something that happened. There is good and bad reasons for breaking this vow. It can emotionally cripple people for life. If a drunk driver puts someone in a wheelchair, do expect that person to be jumping for joy when that driver decides to sober up? Should we expect less for emotional damage? Yes people can decide to break there vow. They may be happier or even better off for doing it. But much like all things in life, it has a price. That price maybe hurting someone so bad they do not wish you the best, that they do not forgive you, and they cut you out of their life forever. Just as you have your choice to walk away from a promise, they have a choice to walk away from you, and they may be better off as well. If you leave them crippled do you really expect them to ever truly be okay that you get to move on happy?

I don't want this to seem like a threadjack, because this does relate directly to Troutman and his children.

If we give ourselves that the WW was miserable in the marriage (and remember – its her experience and how she believes it that counts for her) and if "normal" methods such as talking about the issues, MC and such didn’t alleviate her misery… would we expect her to remain married to make everyone else happy? Do we really expect her to sacrifice her well-being and happiness to make her two adult sons, her aging parents, and her husband (whom she doesn’t want to be married to) happy?

Why should that be given, when she didn't go down that avenue? Her 'misery' came all about the wrong way(assuming Troutman was accurate at his marital status leading up to the affair). No, she shouldn't be destined to live a miserable life. But why should the others be accepting of the way that she found her 'new happiness'? I agree with you completely if she went down the path that you suggested, but she didn't. She was willing to put the others in misery to obtain her happiness.

Again, I would call that a consequence, not a punishment.

A lot of us when we get married stand up before friends and family and vow to make a tough choice. That choice is not to leave. That is what a marriage vow is. There is no other reason to get married.

Agreed. If marrying/divorcing is as casual as one's attire for that day, then why take the vows? Where was HER effort to maintain those vows?

Ok, this is gonna be long...

Never ONCE did WW express her unhappiness. Nothing, zero, zip, nada, never even goaded me into a fight or truly gave the cold shoulder or anything like that. On the surface everything was normal. As we all know, even people in good marriages cheat. Usually because of a serious defect on the part of the cheater. Even if she truly was unhappy, I'm not a mind reader. The woman can get moody, but that has been the case for all thrity years.

I would get up at the crack of dawn when I went fishing and was usually home before she had really started her day, so I certainly wasn't selfish with my time to her exclusion. I did all that so WE could spend time together. That was like pulling teeth really. She has no interests outside of shopping, watching TV and playing golf (which we did together).

My sister raised the interesting point recently, about the "perfect storm" confluence of both sons departing, COVID restrictions, a lot of conflicts with her family and boss, serious uptake in alcohol consumption and menopause. In roughly mid 2020 once my youngest finished college and left she started spending more time with her former co-workers which included OM. I thought little of it at the time, but that's when it all started. Everyone knows how slippery the slope is into an EA, especially from someone you've known for awhile, and who used you as a sounding board for their own divorce. I can alomst script exactly how it happened.

In terms of specific personality traits she has several that play a role in her actions I feel. First, she is NEVER wrong. I think this goes a long way toward her doubling down, not admitting any error of her ways, even to my son, who called out her specific action of adultery being wrong and she basically said that was his opinion. Frightening. Secondly, she's terribly conflict avoidant, which may be why she never opened her mouth. That is NOT how mature adults handle relationship issues, sorry. How on earth was our perception of the state of our marriage so different? She took the easy, cowardly route out, which also was the route that resulted in REAL emotional, physical, and mental damage to me. No remorse, no shame, no regret.She just quit. Here's the kicker though, she told her sibling she was going to leave a year ago (mind you she was deep in the affair by this point). Why not then? I'll tell you why, she didn't fully know she had him locked in yet and didn't have the monkey branch set up. If you REALLY want to leave, then do so. Go live on your own. Fix YOUR issues first, and then maybe start a new relationsip. That would have required more effort and honesty than she was willing to undertake.

I was obviously the only one there when she broke the news and discarded me out of left field. I have never seen so much venom in my life. She literally turned on a dime after we had a normal lunch together just hours before. I was lying in a heap on the couch in shock, and she basically just stepped over me to go do laundry. That is sociopathic level stuff right there. Never once tried to console or tell me she was sorry it came to this. I didn't sleep five minutes that night. She slept in my son's old room. At one point I was rooting around and found the Tylenol PM to try to sleep. Apparently she heard that, because in the morning I got "I was worried when I heard you in there with the pills". So worried that you never bothered to come check if maybe I was trying to OD. So save me the false concern. THIS is the person I am dealing with.

Now...with regard to her parents and our sons. Be clear, NO ONE on this forum knows the true dynamics of this family, even after all I have shared. I'll tell you her parent's hang ups. First, FIL is the most upstanding moral person I have ever met. He is hung up on the fact that she not only committed long-term adultery, but doubled down on DDay and moved right in with OM, while we are still married. He's seen that she is a patholigcal liar and manipulator as well. MIL agrees, but also can't get past WW icy cold discard of me like a used bag of trash. They communicated the day after DDay, and WW stated "it didn't go well, I couldn't leave, but I stand by all my actions" MIL was done right there. Quite frankly, MIL likes me better than her own daughter, so she's upset as if it was one of her own children who was betrayed. Bottom line, she hurt someone who they love like a son.You can be really upset with really bad actions. In fact I admire the fact that they didn't play the "blood is thicker than water " game and try to rationalize their daughter's actions. They've taken a principled stand. Bottom line, they think their daughter has behaved horribly and have chosen, on their own, to not have anything to do with her.

FIL was in the hospital this week, and that would have been the perfect occasion for WW to try to reach out to see how he was doing and try to smooth things over. NOTHING. Once someone crosses her (in her mind), she basically writes them off. The last time she and I spoke about it about seven weeks ago she said "they know my number".

In terms of my sons, they both see her as the biggest hypocrite now. This is a woman who preached the improtance of morality and virtue, and we spent a small fortune sending them to Catholic school through High School for that very reason. My yougest was super disappointed that she literally just moved in with OM days after DDay, no effort to make amends, stop her actions or acknowledge she was wrong. They have lost all respect for her and she deserves all the consequences of a strained relationship with them as a result. Actions have consequences. Even before my oldest finally spoke to her last week, she made such little effort, merely sending the random text (usually totally disconnected from reality). I would have been crawling thorugh broken glass to fix the relationship with my children.Nope, too busy in fantasy land.And.. when she has whined to her brother about them, it has always been how it has affected it her specifically. Not how her children might be feeling about how you willfully hurt their father.

On that note, here's another story that shows her utter selfishness. Eldest moved into his new apartment last June. He asked her multiple times to come by and see it and the two of them could grab dinner or the like, maybe on a night I was away for work (I had been to his aprtment numerous times). She never went. It all makes sense now , as those nights I was gone she was busy with OM. Again utter selfishness. It hurt him to think she couldn't care less.

Bottom line. She made horrific choices and now has to live with resultant fall-out. Achieving your happiness at the expense of another person is really shitty, selfish, entitled behavior and that is what she did. Neither my sons nor her parents are suggesting she stay in the marriage and be unhappy, in fact I would lose the respect of all of them if I took her back, and that's more important to me than anything. Marriage is a serious commitment. I took my vows very seriously. Everyone will be unhappy at times, and certainy after thirty years you fade from that early "infatuation" type of love. That mature love, which requires respect and being selfless certainly didn't resonate with her, and she clearly didn't make the effort required to grow emotionally. She's literally acting like some 16 year old with their first crush. Going out drinking and such, which she never did before (just did it at home...). I guess that goes with her assinie statement to me on DDay that we "just aren't compatible" (Since I don't really drink, and have always been that way). You're figuring that out now??? I was certainly compatible for all the years of heavy lifting when it came to raising chidren, putting a roof over our heads, all that private school tuition and us wanting for very little. Literally thousands of nights on the road over the years, doing the right thing by my family, and the thanks I get is the cheating, lying and sneaking around while I'm off doing that.Business travel is rife with opportunities to cheat. It never once crossed my mind.

WW has exposed herself as an immature, entitled, selfish brat.It will take me a long time to forgive/forget and we will NOT be friends. I will not have a relationship with someone who did what she did to me. The rest of them can work those dynamics out on their own terms. My son was very clear to her apparently on the phone as to the damage she's done to me (depression, insomnia, anxiety) and his concern for my well being, how he checks on me every day and tries to see me once a week. She. Didn't. Care. When someone is that heartless and just utterly lacks emapthy and you dismiss a son's concern as to how you effected the well being of his father than you deserve every bit of scorn they heap on you. Your behavior literally makes you a bad person.

[This message edited by Troutman523 at 3:41 AM, Wednesday, October 5th]

adultery being wrong and she basically said that was his opinion

I'm not religious myself, but there is a poster here that often advises the reading of Proverbs 30:20.

Fits her pretty well.

I can feel the emotion in your words Troutman. How you describe your WW’s behaviour and the family dynamic is clear and concise.

Your WW is being a spoiled brat, plain and simple. Your In-Laws sound like morally upstanding, good people.

I’m feel for you. For someone that you supported and loved for so long to throw you to the curb with such disregard is abhorrent.

Your WW is truly heartless and cruel. Strength to you Troutman. You are a decent guy who did right by his family and helped raise two fine sons. Take pride in your efforts. You have the respect of family and friends. Respect cannot be bought. You've earned that respect. You will heal. And at some point you will be very glad that such a cold, morally deficient person is no longer in your life.

Given her behavior she does not deserve you or your son's. She is totally selfish and self absorbed. Keep up the no contact.

I am stunned that it wasn't her who exposed herself to her parents. Actually, no I am not stunned. This is all about her and her greed.

It sounds like you knew this from her a long time ago.

I am glad your kids aren't giving in to her BS>

Just cut her out and tell her to talk to her attorneys, don't get involved with your kids unless they want to, tell them the entire truth and move on.

Her actions are sickening.

Keep in mind, this may have been going on for longer.

The quicker you get her out of your life, the better you will be. I am worried about you, not her bro

I am wondering whether she considered the whole marriage as a business contract where the parties support each other but little or no emotions and intimacy are involved. Looking back do you see any possibility that she has acted in that way

You clearly have a bead on the situation before, during and after the A. Your descriptions are very detailed and accurate Im sure. You will doubtless be doing these post mortems in your head many times in future years.

My concern for you though, is that the continuation of that habit will not let you detach and detach you must. Im not talking about now, per se, as you are still processing your recent massive trauma. I am talking about the near future however as this understandable habit will hold you back.

Your CW is clearly self deluded and has intentionally hardened her heart toward you and anyone who who oppose her morally bankrupt course of action. If time and experience have taught us anything, the probability of her little fantasy imploding at some point, is very high. I do not think though that she will ever admit that her actions were wrong and become remorseful in any way. She is dug in deep into her hardened position to the point that she demonizes those she supposedly loved....beginning with you of course, and, her own children. Her own flesh and blood. Abominable. She has truly ceased being a spouse, soul mate, mother, friend, hell, even an acquaintance. She is a stranger you happen to know a lot about.

So. Brother. What to do? My advice? Keep distancing from her. Try not to talk about her outside of therapy. Journal to get those thoughts out of your head. Practice the principle of displacement, i.e. fish whenever you want to. Anything positive, healthy and, dare I say, fun, that will at least interrupt the temptation to ruminate.

Strength and healing to you TM.

ETA: I just checked your first post abd according to that, you are still only 3.5 months out from your Dday. You are doing well IMO.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 12:22 PM, Wednesday, October 5th]