SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

In my college days, I once smoked pot and ate cookies and actually talked physics and philosophy with a guy friend. It was science-focused program with very few women, so a lot of my friends were male. STBWX (my boyfriend at the time) was away for the summer, and this guy's girlfriend was at work. There was zero flirting, just casual conversation.

A yeas, baked philosophy is surely something.

I’d say that with the right boundaries it is fun and (likely 80%) safe? Most of the times. Had the same, if the girl had a boyfriend we were always clear I’d never touch her, so you can enjoy the fun relaxing as with same gender buddies, and the stuff that comes out on those is pure gold

Even if that is the case though the boyfriend /girlfriend feeling discomfort is absolutely natural, the situation IS inappropriate and it is not crossing solely based on the "philosopher " trust and intention.

Those ones are if not fine, okaysh if it happens once in a blue moon (minus the sleepover possibly).

I think we can agree this ain’t that kind of party though, the op has every right to feel miserable.

Derk

I gave you an outline for a conversation with your wife in my post on your other thread. I suggest you read it and follow through with it.
I do however have less worry about actual physical infidelity after your last post OTHER than her decision to sleep over, seeing as how the villa wasn’t far away. The fact both changed dresses makes me wonder what they are expecting on these nights out. Why is the risk of getting one set of clothes wrecked/dirty so high and expected you need a spare set?
One thing you haven’t shared: What happened to the clothes she was wearing when she went out? Were they stained? Did she bring them back? Dirty? Wrecked?

I think your marriage is at a crossroads.
I might sound ancient, but with age roles change. The once-a-week going out with the friends, drinking, dancing, semi-erotic behavior, flirting, drugs, all night… Sounds great when you are 20-25 but becomes… tired… after that.
You spend 40 hours per week at work. Add the commute. Add maybe a couple of hours at the gym. Maybe some time to buy groceries. Then the chores at home. Then time spent cooking, helping with the laundry, cleaning up after dinner, tending to kids sports, homework, activities… There really isn’t a lot of time left. Weekends become a premium with maybe a couple of extra hours in bed, time to mow the lawn, visit family, spend time together… There really isn’t the time to spend a WEEKLY 4-6 hours partying with the old gang from high-school… No time to be hung-over.

On the talk with your wife:
First call the husband once more and ask if HE has any doubts or concerns, and if he’s OK with his wife spending all night with people you don’t know.

Then:
Tell your wife that you saw those messages and that conversation.
Tell her that there is nothing you can do to prevent her from having an affair or seeking excitement elsewhere. You have no interest whatsoever in being the enemy or some evil black knight that keeps her enclosed in some form of prison. If she feels trapped or that you are limiting her in some unreasonable way then she should tell you and the two of you can talk things through. You want a MARRIAGE – a union – and want to be there on equal terms. Not you as the bad cop and she the victim.
But also tell her that you do not accept infidelity. If she wants something else then the honest way to do so is to let you know and then the two of you can come to a fair agreement on how you separate.
Make it also very clear that IF she were to cheat it would inevitably come out. It could come out as a STD, as a bruise, a hickey, a message, an email, a rumor… whatever. It will come out and at that time cause devastation beyond anything either of you have experienced.
Then follow the script I gave you in the first post.

It’s immensely better for you to have the conversation NOW rather than after discovering she’s made some plans with another man, or maybe the next (or next or next or next) all-night hedonistic "let’s-hang-on-to-our-youth-despite-two-kids-a-mortage-and-a-husband reality" party where it goes that step further.

Finally:
I am definitely not a prude, but some life-decisions made me stay away from drugs when I was in my 20’s. Somehow being a cop made it hard to be snorting coke or dropping e and then arresting the dealer on the next shift…
Most of my friends did them, and some went on to battle addictions, others not. I’m not condemning anyone that takes an occasional snort, nor am I condoning it. I do however question the sensibility as a parent with kids of ingesting some substance that you have absolutely NO idea of the origin and quality of. These guys might be rich, but they don’t have a clue if their dealer (and chances are he doesn’t either…) is selling them clean coke, or with some additive to increase potency or substance to "water out" the product. I am more against ingesting POISON than I am against the drug itself. It’s just like I wouldn’t buy a bottle of James Daniels from the back of a truck simply because it had a low price.
She should be questioning herself and her responsibility as a parent at taking part in the drugs.

People who go own GNO/BNO and take spare clothing have enough opsec sense to not admit to things where it can be discovered. If you notice they both don't regret but don't actually define what they regret. That stands out to me a bit as odd. I would have expected more than just not regretting it. If it was so innocuous why would there be regrets?

Your wife knows it upset you. Rather than figure out how to soothe you, she is mocking you with likely her potential lover. Maybe not a smoking gun, but with disdain. If she doesn't change her attitude your marriage is doomed regardless of what you do.

I agree with Bigger. In today's world taking illegal drugs of any sort can be fatal. There's little illicit drugs that haven't been tainted with fentanyl. Someone with children is taking that risk isn't a healthy parent or partner.

If you notice they both don't regret but don't actually define what they regret. That stands out to me a bit as odd. I would have expected more than just not regretting it. If it was so innocuous why would there be regrets?

Your wife knows it upset you. Rather than figure out how to soothe you, she is mocking you with likely her potential lover. Maybe not a smoking gun, but with disdain. If she doesn't change her attitude your marriage is doomed regardless of what you do.

Yes! I agree fully with grubs. Your wife knew it upset you and apologized. She knew she crossed implied boundaries that you have in your relationship. The disdain and disregard she shows later seems to confirm that she really just does not care about how you view the situation. She is also starting to not discuss her conversations with others. That is segmenting off from your marriage and turning away, whether she is cheating or not. It's a fatal attitude in marriage.

I don't have suggestions on how to approach it. To me, your restraint in simply observing without confronting now is admirable. I wouldn't rush into anything.

Op the point you see made over and over is:

If your wife is keeping you in the dark and discussing intimacy or intimate things (that should only be between you and her) with another man…. You know what it is.

If she knows that you are jealous is between you and her.

Why should this guy hear that at a lunch with your wife after a sleepover with your wife and reinforce to her "you have nothing to regret and we’re doing it again next party"?

It’s spelled out

Op the point you see made over and over is:

If your wife is keeping you in the dark and discussing intimacy or intimate things (that should only be between you and her) with another man…. You know what it is.

If she knows that you are jealous is between you and her.

Why should this guy hear that at a lunch with your wife after a sleepover with your wife and reinforce to her "you have nothing to regret and we’re doing it again next party"?

It’s spelled out

The entire group on this post is trying very hard not to use the words affair or cheating. That’s because none of us know if any of that happened. So let’s use the right word…it is disconnected. Your wife is not connected to you right now and you sense it but you don’t want to so you wandered around and wandered around and wandered around and we’ve wandered with you. So I just wrote this on another post. Read the book the THE GIFT OF FEAR. It’s by Gavin de Becker. Former cop. Still does professional surveying and protecting of some pretty big wigs. I think he knows what he’s talking about. What I’m talking about is you sitting down by yourself and thinking through what your body is trying to tell you. He says that our bodies are designed to pick up danger before our brains recognize it. I think that’s where you are. Your wife might have done nothing that would anger you but I guarantee you it worries you. In fact, it worries you enough that no matter what anybody writes you’re just gonna keep wandering around because looking at it straight in the face is scaring the daylights out of you. Take charge.

[This message edited by Cooley2here at 5:39 AM, Tuesday, June 23rd]

The entire group on this post is trying very hard not to use the words affair or shocked cheating. That’s because none of us know if any of that happened. So let’s use the right word…it is disconnected.

I agree with Cooley here.

We’re not saying because there’s no confession and you always hope there’s that once in a lifetime star alignment when things are different…. But I think we all think it.

You are thinking it too Derek, I don’t see why you would be posting on surviving infidelity if you didn’t fear infidelity.

I personally think even worse, I’d be surprised if it was just one or two guys and not a full on orgy, it’s my bias from being familiar with those kind of parties but usually the girls take turns in attending those, to bed the special guests the center of… "attention ".
That would make the spare dress change for girls make sense.

Not to say I don’t wish it to be a huge misunderstanding and she was truly just attending a smashed on drugs philosophy convention.

I truly truly hope so.

But I had enough lies by my infidelity and wayward to freely swallow more.

Again finger crossed, anyway you have a confrontation in your future, even if she was a saint.
Good luck brother.

Post #27:

The entire group on this post is trying very hard not to use the words affair or shocked cheating. That’s because none of us know if any of that happened.

Not me. And I don't think it is everyone else either. I actually think most of us have been pretty assertive in stating that there is an actual fire. Just in case: Derk's WW is in fact CHEATING. Let's be clear about this. And to put another way--she is a WW in an affair. Someone's got to say it.

Keeping secrets from your husband with another man? Talking bad about your husband to said other man? Then meeting him for lunch behind your husband's back when you know he wouldn't have ever approved, and then on top of that making plans to meet up again? Cheating. I mean c'mon, what do you think is going to happen at lunch? Are they going to strategise how to win next time at scrabble? Nope, it's a man-to-woman thing, they are going on a romantic date.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 5:32 PM, Tuesday, June 23rd]

Maybe I'm just old-fashioned but from what we've been told there have been several affairs. If I saw pictures online of my wife on top of some man's shoulders at a music festival I would be filing for divorce. If my wife was out on a girls night and started hanging around with a group of guys at a music festival, divorce. If my wife went back to some man's house,divorce. If my wife told me she was drinking and doing drugs with strange men, divorce. If my wife came home in a different outfit, even the same night, divorce. And were she to spend the night at a man's house not only would it be divorce I would be telling everybody exactly why I filed.

Your wife did all of this in one night :/ BTW, did you ever examine the dress she started out the evening wearing?

If my wife said she was doing weekly girl's night out I would say not if you want to stay married to me. Once in awhile, okay. Not even monthly would be okay with me anymore.

It doesn’t look like an affair. It looks like a wife bent on being a party girl with some rich dudes. Sadly she is probably one of many they use. Being a woman I am puzzled by why money blinds other women to shady dealings. These men saw some willing women. They could have been 20 or 50 and put the gold out there and she bit.

It doesn’t look like an affair. It looks like a wife bent on being a party girl with some rich dudes

....which is an affair.

It does not matter if Derk's WW has paired off with the guy she has met up with twice, or if she is instead a groupie--participating in 3-somes and orgies with her lunches with that guy just to set this all up--WW has forsaken her husband for someone(s) else be it that one man, a couple, or the group as a whole. She has ALREADY CHEATED on her husband when she made fun of him to and then met up with that guy.

[This message edited by WontBeFooledAgai at 11:37 PM, Tuesday, June 23rd]

Cooley2here
You said to you this doesn't look like an affair but you also said "It looks like a wife bent on being a party girl with some rich dudes. Sadly she is probably one of many they use."

How do you think rich dudes who like to party and take drugs are using the OP's wife? From my point of view the only way she would not be "cheating" on him is if they are already in an open relationship/cuckoldry or whatever it's framed as. I already said I thought OP was rage-baiting here since in my opinion description provided in both posts allude to his wife "enjoying" life.

WB1340
You're still married, right? If you are, your reply on this thread does not make sense. Btw, I do think OP's wife deserves
to get destroyed in a divorce.

I think we are using the word "affair" differently. To me it means emotions are involved. If sex occurred because you partied together and things happened that is cheating. Either way I see a disconnected woman bent on doing what she wants to even if it hurts the person who loves her. I have NEVER put myself in a situation that would hurt my h if he found out. He did, I didn’t. However, from what little I know he was in a situation much like OP’s wife and did what I could not do. We have moved on.
I hope she sees the pain he is in and recognizes where this might be headed if she doesn’t stop but human beings have never been rational when they want something badly enough.