SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

While there are still so many things I can’t wrap my head around … one that irks me the most is that my WH KNEW cheating/infidelity of any kind was wrong, disgusting and immediate cause for an end of the M - like, he would crumble like a cookie if I did it to him. He was never wanting to leave the M and all he wanted was for us to live "happily ever after." Like … he KNEW any form of cheating was wrong, he never engaged in this type of behaviour before and he never ever considered or thought he was capable of it. It’s like one day he woke up and decided to say "well, fuck me I guess … I’m just gonna throw everything out the window and destroy my moral code and ethics and ruin my reputation, my family, my everything … over nothing."

Why cheat if you know it’s wrong? I just don’t get it.

Many folks are raised to believe that if no one sees them do wrong, they don't do wrong. Or, it's only bad if you are caught.

Many people involved in an A believe they could never be caught, so as long as no one finds out, no one is hurt.

My mother-in-law was visiting and telling us how our nephew could bring a water bottle to school. We don't have kids and haven't been in school in 30+ years, so that was pretty surprising "news" to us. She tells us that "nephew" doesn't like to drink plain water, so she gets him the add-in flavor packets. I asked how he could use them if they were only allowed to have water. "Oh, it's OK," she told me. "I get him colorless add-ins, so no one knows."

That was a light-bulb moment for my WH. He was raised to believe that if no one caught him -- if he got away with it -- then it was OK.

"Why cheat if you know it’s wrong?"

They have justified it in their minds, and "no one is going to get hurt", so it’s only a little bit wrong.

And they want to keep getting whatever it is they’re getting from the relationship enough to do a little bit wrong.

My wife and I engaged in pre-marital sex. We had both been taught that it was wrong, but we did it anyway. And we kept it a secret.

I can’t remember now how I justified it. I don’t think I did justify it. I knew if my wife’s family found out, or if she got pregnant (we used protection), it would have been very, very hard on her. I was in love with her, I didn’t want to wreck her relationship with her family, I didn’t want her hurt, but I did it anyway. Every chance I got. And there was plenty of planning involved, purchases of contraceptives, we lived together for awhile, unbeknownst to her folks. She had more on the line than I did, but she was a willing participant. A condom broke one time, and she was terrified. But we didn’t stop.

Now, I’m not equating fornication with adultery. But it was wrong; people could have been hurt; there could have been an illegitimate child.

But we did it. And I’m guessing there are few, if any, BSs that haven’t done something they knew was wrong, that could have, did, hurt people, but did it anyway. Long sigh.

And maybe my wife’s willingness to engage in pre-marital sex foreshadowed her willingness to be an adulteress. I haven’t cheated.

Maybe my wife gave me sex to maintain our relationship, just as she gave her AP sex to maintain that relationship. If so, she was wrong both times. But maybe I’ve reaped what I sowed.

For me, the good feelings were enticing enough for me to create justifications around them. You tell yourself lies so you can do what you want.

I feel I have had a good track record for much of my adulthood in doing the right thing. But you can do the right thing more because you know that’s what is expected rather than having strong values around it.

For about a year or more leading up to the affair my life had gotten very out of control. I was working 7 days a week, very long days. Also a mom and a was the default parent for most everything, as well as the only one who took care of the house, bills, etc. I was a people pleaser and truly lost myself in all the doing. I became very depressed. I hated my life. The affair came at a time when I was honestly a numb, emotional desert. I had even been diagnosed right before with emotional exhaustion.

It doesn’t excuse my accountability in the affair, moreso just explaining my mental state a little bit when the affair began. I was on a business trip where we were in a group doing fun things. It was a time to let my hair down. While nothing happened in that trip physically, I had gone on a walk with the Ap. I had just said I wasn’t ready to go back to the hotel and extended the invitation to the group and he was the only one to take me up on it. I didn’t think anything of it, I traveled with men most of my career. I always had good boundaries with them and I had known the ap a long time. We walked and talked about all sorts of things and it felt good. He made an overture, I declined. But it felt good. Very good. He was a bit sheepish the next day, and I texted him to say have a good trip home. Again, I am a people pleaser and god forbid he feel uncomfortable.

But that too was just a lie and justification. I wanted more attention. I wanted to feel alive again. That took precedence for me, for a lot of reasons but I think the biggest one was a lack of commitment to my values.

And I think that boils it down to a lot of things:

1. Because we are selfish and it feels good

2. Because we don’t have a strong relationship with our values. Or maybe do not have the same values as someone who would not cheat.or because of being depressed our values may not feel as important.

3. Because we tell ourselves lies. We make ourselves believe we have made greater sacrifices to the marriage and deserve to have some fun. (Entitlement) when in reality we have stopped appreciating our spouse to recognize this isn’t true at all.

4. Because we seek external validation.

5. Because we don’t love ourselves, we don’t always receive the love our spouse is trying to give us.

6. Because we may be holding a lot of things in and that strangles our connection with our spouse. Yet, what I craved more than anything else as the connection I unknowing was blocking myself from having.

It’s possible only a few of these will apply to your husband but I think that every ws has some combo of these things going on.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:37 PM, Friday, January 31st]

Heartbrokenwife23-
I had such a hard time with this question as well. My UH did answer all the questions and talk at any time I wanted, and so many conversations I brought back to your exact words, "why cheat, when you knew it was wrong".
Honestly these conversations showed me how much I assumed and projected my boundaries were the same as his. They were not- my moral code and since of responsibility was much greater.
Reread Hikingout, after IC and so many conversations, her list is exactly what my UH believed as well.
It is still mind blowing to me, but I do have a better understanding of just how insecure, and self loathing he became, which started bending his thoughts and he was accepting to an offered "pain killer" his affair.
Like I said, my brain doesn’t function that way, and I’m still working on the acceptance of who he was, and that it’s now part of my story.

A related question is why pretend to possess morals you don’t believe in or hold on to? How could he judge others for doing the same thing he was doing? Was getting caught the only real mistake in their minds? I think I have projected a moral compass onto my husband that was more what I wished than what he is made of. I had him figured very wrong.

Looking back, do you see any instances where your WH was pushing the boundaries of how you thought he would behave? In hindsight, I find aspects of my WH’s decision process or rationalizations to be hints of the fuzzy boundaries he was hiding. I wonder now what his values really are, and I always thought I knew with certainty that he was one of the last good guys. I think in his mind, he is the good guy he needs to believe he is, and the image he likes to project. My therapist is guessing he can’t handle the truth about himself very well.

The best he can explain that time in his life is that he was a raging animal, not thinking, just doing. I saw his midlife crisis and thought we were handling ours together pretty well. Who knew he felt trapped, unappreciated, unheard at home, and he just pulled farther away, quit talking to me and began to plot his path to happiness via the magic of the internet and sex with strangers. He did the math and decided it wasn’t wrong enough to not do it and decided he was worth it, and I was going to be happily cared for and be his long term pal, and we’d be just fine. He actually had it twisted to a win-win in his mind, and I can only hope he sees now how horrifying that is for me.

Mental gymnastics are amazing. Some of us married experts at it. For the record, my WH is likely the smartest person I have ever met. In almost every way that counts, but he is stupid at being in a human relationships and knowing himself. I like to blame his awful parent relationships for a lot of his flaws, but I had many of the same issues and went the other way. I never knew how different we were in character and empathy until this.

And it wasn’t for nothing, you know, throwing it all away. it was to get laid. Like a stupid high school teenager, just with much higher stakes, and no contingency plan or damage control what so ever. Stupid.

[This message edited by whatisloveanyway at 5:49 PM, Saturday, February 1st]

My WH has been articulate and clear about this. He did it because it was wrong. When I first accidentally discovered his sex friend in 2009, he said it made him feel alive.
He has slept around a lot before we got married. He said it was nothing like that. It was so much better because of the sneaking around.
I knew this meant he would do it again.
And he did.

He was clear that the only way to get him to stop cheating on our relationship was for me to leave the relationship.

I’ve only slept with him. We did before we got married. During his affairs, we continued to have an active intimate relationship.
It wasn’t about looks or body preferences. He loved being the guy who got to be with multiple women at once. He doesn’t want to change that.
I don’t understand it but it is his truth and his commitment.

SadieMae

I understand this perspective. Personally, I think not getting caught is one thing, but then having to live with that secret would be such a weight to carry forever (assuming whomever has the secret to keep actually has a conscious). I guess that’s where those justifications come into play.

Formerpeopleperson

I can understand your analogy in this sense. I know I’ve definitely engaged in my own poor choices knowing they could or would hurt others or myself … I suppose we always try to justify our reasoning behind our choices to make ourselves feel better.

hikingout

Thank you for sharing your experience, I always appreciate your in-depth responses. I can see many similarities in my WH at the time of his A. Again, the year leading up to the A, he started to self sooth his depression and loneliness with porn, which subsequently lead to an extremely, unhealthy obsession. Just as you describe, he too become very vulnerable and was numb to literally everything (heaven forbid he communicated this too me … guess I was supposed to read his mind, however, I am also a guilty party in this).

My WH describes a very similar mental state as well … he was a mental disaster in every respect and it got worse and worse leading up to when his A took place.

Thank you for sharing how your A took shape … I try to put myself in his shoes sometimes - trying to understand how little bouts of attention here and there aid to vulnerability and can lead you down that slippery slope.

I actually went through this list of things with my WH. He definitely resonates with the fact that he became very self absorbed and thought that his contributions to the family surpassed mine … when it comes to his values he’s adamant that he never once intended to cheat and hates cheaters/that he made the decision to cheat (he’s adamant that this type of person is not who he is and he never once "projected" me in this light) … he says he never thinks that he’s ever loved himself and definitely is struggling with this concept now … he was withholding so many feelings, thoughts and emotions (he describes it in a way that if you’re a man you don’t show emotion or share feelings - he exploded because it became too much).

Finallyworkingonme

We sound similar in our feelings and our morals. My WH and I actually talked about this the other day … for example, I always had blind trust and in some ways kinda naive about the "goodness" in people - I always trusted everyone, even strangers. I assumed my WH felt the same. Turns out he didn’t possess blind trust … he has been let down by many people over the course of his life and has seen some very dark things happen - hence, he didn’t just trust people so freely. In turn, he thought that I thought and felt the same. It’s hard to fathom that anyone could think differently from you.

whatisloveanyway

There are always infinite questions a BS has for a WS. Many of the ones you mentioned I’ve asked myself.

Honestly - I can’t really recall any instances where I’ve seen him "push" his boundaries … I think that’s why his infidelity completely blindsided me (I thought I was exempt because of his previous "exemplary" actions). I do agree that many WS have a hard time looking in the mirror and admitting (owning it is even harder) that they are broken and need some serious mending of their character.

Agreed. Mental gymnastics do the WS wonders. It creates the narrative that what they are doing isn’t so bad if you add x,y,z into the equation.

luvedmypbear

I’m sorry that you WH wasn’t what you needed him to be. I see that you’ve been around SI for quite some time … I hope you have found some sort of peace over the years.

Why cheat if you know it’s wrong? I just don’t get it.

I'm years out of DDays. And this still hurts to write (as he should have been better/stronger/etc. than that). BUT through past and recent discussions with WH in his case it was simply the deadly combination back in 2014 of being down on himself [self employed/injured/work slow down and feeling worthlessAF] at the same time the "one who got away" friended him on Facebook. The rest was predictable history.

Stripped down - nothing but his individualized version of the same old sad song - chasing that dopamine high and the vicious cycle that ensues.

edited to correct spelling errors

[This message edited by Chaos at 4:32 PM, Wednesday, February 5th]

because we humans are flawed, some more or less than others.....we often dont do what we know is the right thing to do, and we choose whats easier or that which brings more immediate gratification.

We all know how bad it is to eat the wrong processed and sugar/fat ladden foods, how much are they proven to be harmful for our health, yet we eat them anyways, and obesity rates are higher and higher....this is one end of the spectrum, betrayal is more on the other side of the spectrum, but its more or less related to giving in to pleasure and satisfaction in lieu of upholding whats the right thing to do....

doesnt justify a darn thing, not one bit....many surverys have highlighted that I think like 78% of people will choose to have an affair if they had a guarantee that they would never be found out.....

other than moral and shame, there are no real consequences for cheating, unlike drunk driving. You could be reach very quickly by simply choosing to rob out local bank, why dont we? because the consequences would be extremely severe and immediate......am not implying that affairs should carry similar consequences, but consider that you dont even have to cheat, you could tell your spouse that you are leaving tonite to sleep and have sex with some stranger, and do it, and there is not a single thing you can do to stop them....no lying or betrayal needed.

[This message edited by irwinr89 at 3:30 PM, Monday, February 3rd]

There is hardly a day goes by that this question does not pop up in my head. As a betrayed spouse we will dig so deep and spend much time trying to get an answer to this. Why would they risk everything good in their life for personal validation and desires. I don't think there is an answer to this question that will satisfy us, given all the pain and heartbreak we go through. We want a clear answer from a spouse that is very flawed emotionally and more than likely conflict avoidant. one thing I have learned from being on the receiving end of a LTA is that noting is fair for the victims of infidelity, there is no clear answers for us. The bottom line to me is that we are all humans, and we will make mistakes and bad choices throughout our lives. I would think that most unfaithful would agree at some point that this was the worst choice that they have ever made in their life. My wife fucked up and lived a secret life for 15 years and I have accepted that she is a flawed human being who made a terrible choice. Things are different with us now but we are trying to rebuild a better relationship without repeating the mistakes we both made during our first attempt. We are 3 years post Dday and some things that used to bother me don't anymore. But your question will always be in my head too. I wish you well as I have walked in your shoes and understand the injustice and frustrations of it all.

Lost1313

There is hardly a day goes by that this question does not pop up in my head. As a betrayed spouse we will dig so deep and spend much time trying to get an answer to this. Why would they risk everything good in their life for personal validation and desires. I don't think there is an answer to this question that will satisfy us, given all the pain and heartbreak we go through.

One of the biggest things I have learned about my husband over the years since his A is that he does not possess the character I assumed he possessed. I think the biggest failure of most WS is a failure of good character or personal ethics.

One of the biggest things I have learned about my husband over the years since his A is that he does not possess the character I assumed he possessed. I think the biggest failure of most WS is a failure of good character or personal ethics.

SadieMae

I can relate to that statement when it comes to my wife. I put her on a pedestal that she could not stand on. I assumed I knew her completely after almost 50 years together. In my eyes she was strong in faith, strong in character and loyal to her family. I have always said I can't fix something that I don't know was broke. I feel like I sleepwalked through those 15 years of her affair not knowing anything was wrong. She made a bad choice because she couldn't see the problem. She needed to look in the mirror and fix herself. The problem was never about anything I did or did not do or our marriage. It was her personal failure and lack of strength to make the right choice. I am far from perfect, but I have been a hardworking, loyal husband.

Lost1313

I now realise that all I ever was to my ex was a means to an end, and that when she realised she could not achieve that end with me she went looking for others with whom she could.

[This message edited by Attlas at 9:04 PM, Monday, February 3rd]