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Newest Member: chickenchicken

Just Found Out :
Assertive on the one hand, still in need to talk on the other hand

Topic is Sleeping.
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 llclarky (original poster new member #84175) posted at 5:04 PM on Thursday, November 23rd, 2023

So, before I went all the way to register, I've read a lot on here. It's obvious that what happened to me, what brings me here, is not original. Same old story for all of us who come and tell their tale of starting the journey.

Among the things that may vary from case to case, I genuinely believed we were both doing our parts in that marriage and there was no trace of bumps nor insatisfaction. Of course we were not perfect, just, there were no signs of the marriage to be suffering. Not only did she never reach out to tell me of any problem we may have, I was also attentive to anything non-verbal that may come from her and I saw nothing but satisfaction for our lives. Well, more exactly, in June she suddenly became distant and rather cold to me out of nowhere. I would later learn though, that by this time her affair had already gone physical, so, too late to claim that something hadn't been right in the marriage.

I was aware all along that we all think it won't happen to us, and yet to some of us it does, so, it was a possibility. I guess, I just, genuinely believed. I've seen a lot of people get married while frankly they were not doing so good as a couple, and why not, married life is part of the culture too. Simply, I believed we had built the right kind of relationship, and were married as married is what was meant for us, the happy versions of us. I'm guessing that part of me is gone. I won't be capable anymore to, genuinely believe.

We don't have kids, which is now a blessing all around, starting for said kids had them existed.

In all honesty, my presence here telling about my situation is a giant self-contradiction. On the one hand, I make decisions, and for the important parts, I'm certain that I am inflexible. On the other hand, I am just too alone in keeping the details of my thoughts. I have friends, yes, but I can't imagine expecting them to read something like what I'm writing now. They're more for more superficial understanding of what I'm going through.

Her AP is her direct supervisor, I will now call him her boss. Married too, with kids them. From what I gather, the affair probably started fast. I'm not sure how long were there flirty dances in person, but when they admitted to each other they were getting into their affair, they went to the hotel beside work, and she was distant from the night she went home that day. Frankly, I suspect it wasn't anywhere near discreet enough that they weren't caught by a handful of coworkers. From there, they were texting love messages and plans for sex, and having sex roughly every other day, still on work hours. A lot of their texting was complaining about their spouses, for being in the way of their plans by being where we're supposed to be, and for what seems to be made up claims. To the best of my knowledge they never had sex in our home but she wishes they could. It's just was involved in checking the neighborhood videosurveillance, and I even often need to come fetch something home without warning, so they'd be too obviously caught. They had sex at the other marital home six times from what I gather. With poor measures against being caught by the kids. They seemed to enjoy that they were betraying spouses and families, rather than show an interest in leaving their marriages to be together.

After a never-seen before coldness of two weeks and complete unwillingness to talk about what's going on creating that coldness, I decided to investigate rather than ask questions. It soon became clear that she was texting any moment she didn't see me around. First it was clear that whoever she was texting, she thought was more deserving than me to know what was going on in our marriage. But with that level of devotion, an affair was the obvious suspect anyway. One may wonder why did I not try and check her phone, especially considering it would have been very easy for me. Well, see, let's imagine for a second that whatever she's doing keeping me in the dark of my own marriage, was *not* betraying me in an affair. In that case using my abilities to check her phone would have been a serious betrayal from me to her. It would have come to that eventually but I couldn't accept the idea before I had tried less invasive techniques. I just followed her to work one day, discreetly. And saw them go to a hotel room for an hour and a half at a time they were clocked in. Technically I don't have pictures of what went on in the room, but I strongly suspect they were not folding cranes to wish their big customer good luck. Being confirmed that she was cheating on me, I went back home to use previously stated ability to check her phone, and I made copies and prints of their entire conversations. Still doing that to this day, albeit there is a lot less volume and it doesn't take much of my time. On that discovery day, I was strangely focused rather than feeling any sort of emotions. I spent the night reading resources on the subject of infidelity and planning to go meet a lawyer to get knowledge of what a divorce would be like. I also packaged my proofs in a comprehensive document that I sent to his wife through various channels I could gather online. I decided I had no right to get my ducks in a row while keeping this other betrayed person in the dark. I invited her to reach out to me if she wished, as well as a couple of personal suggestions, such as when your spouse is accused of cheating by a stranger, and they don't want you to run a text recovery program on your phone, it doesn't show how much they value privacy it shows that the recovered texts would prove their affair.

In the middle of the morning the AP's wife did call me to ask me details about how did I find out and gather the evidence, then asked about my plans. I explained I had no plans so far beside gaining knowledge. However, as I was being betrayed I did not feel like volunteering information to my betrayer, and I would appreciate refraining from informing anyone that I have discovered the affair. At the end of that week AP's wife called me, interested in talking out the entire matter the four of us. I explained to her that I felt no desire nor saw any point in talking anything out with these two betrayers, so that proposal was strongly rejected. Also that I would continue to appreciate refraining from informing her husband that I know. To the best of my knowledge she respected that wish of mine. AP was later kicked out from home and from there seems to have cut affair-like communication with WW. They still talk, but not lovingly at all any more, and much more sparingly. As I wasn't the only betrayed person involved, I had made no plan to inform their workplace. But clearly, OBS did, as they were both fired two months ago.

Lawyer meeting was uneventful. In short, infidelity changes nothing to the terms of divorce, which is still to divide assets 50/50. It typically takes a year of procedures after filing the official initial request. She would be unable to afford the house and I don't feel an attachment to this house, so we would sell it for change money and divide these few coins between us. I'll lose a lot but nothing to do about it. It would have been better for me if WW and AP were going strong as that would have likely meant no alimony.

Ever since, I've lived freely without burdening myself with any obligation I may have towards WW, spending the evening and the night where I want, taking vacations how I want, reclaiming my abandoned hobbies and having fun, seeing my family and friends rather than being home, all without bothering to inform anyone but my closest people. There is no chance by now that she hasn't realized that I know, but I'm not sure when she figures I discovered.

Upon thinking and thinking about what is my life now, I have come to a number of non-changing conclusions in no particular order.

- I can't see anything in R. To me the drawbacks that come with D, are actually more like sunk costs, and in truth drawbacks of the fact that she's abusive.

- I don't love her. I have lived 15 years of a happy romantic story being in love with someone, but she isn't this someone. The situation is that I discovered that the person I love is a fiction. The person I am currently married to is not the person I love nor I've loved. She's an evil abuser who impersonated the person I loved at my expense.

- Even if something changed in the above and I would consider R, she's not enough anymore. What I thought we had was more than enough, but things are different now. If she was able to offer more of what we had when I was happy, that would be a requirement, but not enough. I would now also need to have more time to be free by myself, including but not limited to sleeping with other willing women as I see fit, while she would be considered having done that already and be forever finished with it. I do not believe for a second that it would be an option, but without that, then R is simply not interesting. It would be a worthless life of misery and any other life would be by far much better.

- I can't stay married to her. Marriage ties us legally and means she has legal rights to my bank accounts and to make contracts in my name. I have taken measures so that she can't spend much and would have trouble do anything of importance that involves my liability without my permission. But I can't stay in this arrangement forever. The idea is to not be married when you don't want a person to have that much power over your life.

- I can't stay married to her, but right now this carefree lifestyle when I don't bother doing anything is strangely calming. I'm reconciling with my old hobbies and becoming close friends with new, interesting people, without having to care about anything but the measures that prevent taking all my money.

- I will not take any action towards making anything like that happen, however, as a random observation, I genuinely feel like the world would be better off if she died. No really. I strongly doubt that there would be anything like a feeling of grief nor regret if I were to take a call announcing me of her demise. It would however make things much easier for me and preferable for anyone spared from meeting her in the future.

posts: 2   ·   registered: Nov. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: France
id 8816068
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Cooley2here ( member #62939) posted at 5:45 PM on Thursday, November 23rd, 2023

What I read is a man so enraged that you have shut down any positive emotion you might have. Don’t wish bad things on your possibly soon to be ex-wife. It is not going to get you anywhere. Everyone wants revenge, but it is a very very enraged way to live. If you are done with the marriage, then be done with it. Staying in the house with her is not doing you any good and whether you know it or not it’s stressing you out. I don’t know if you’ve read about what chronic stress does to the body, but it is not pretty. In some cases it becomes so cumulative that the body begins to break down and cannot ever completely recover again. Do you really want the rest of your life to be paying the price for living in hell? Get your ducks in a row and get out.

When things go wrong, don’t go with them. Elvis

posts: 4362   ·   registered: Mar. 5th, 2018   ·   location: US
id 8816070
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gr8ful ( member #58180) posted at 6:48 PM on Thursday, November 23rd, 2023

Truly sorry this happened to you OP.

I commend you for taking the bold steps of speaking to an attorney and living your life now for yourself. What I cannot comprehend is why, it seems, you have never confronted her. Then again, dropping D papers on her without ever confronting is also pretty badass. Has she admitted anything? What was her explanation for getting fired? Has she even asked you about your (presumably) 180’ing her and (rightly) doing your own thing now?

posts: 439   ·   registered: Apr. 6th, 2017
id 8816076
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fareast ( Moderator #61555) posted at 7:07 PM on Thursday, November 23rd, 2023

Very sorry you have found the need to be here. Your WW's betrayal is very cruel. Her actions are very selfish.

But you have taken some positive steps. Do read in the healing library. Others will be along to provide support. Assuming you are in house separation, that has to be stressful for you. I assume your WW is not remorseful and you live separate lives. There really is no reason not to file for D at this point.

You are taking care of you, getting out with friends and living your life. Really doing a 180. All recommended actions.

Do get into IC if you feel the need to deal with your rage and pain.

Good luck moving forward with the next phase of your life.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 7:08 PM, Thursday, November 23rd]

Never bother with things in your rearview mirror. Your best days are on the road in front of you.

posts: 3944   ·   registered: Nov. 24th, 2017
id 8816077
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 llclarky (original poster new member #84175) posted at 7:15 PM on Thursday, November 23rd, 2023

@Cooley2here

If that is so, then rage takes very surprising forms.

I am completely fooled into thinking that my feelings towards her are akin to the indifference towards a pile of trash you know you have in the middle of your living room. You're not completely indifferent. First, it's disgusting. Second, it's annoying that it is there and it's annoying to know that you need to do something about it. But it's not very emotionally moving.

I certainly don't intend to stay married to her. However, I've stomached a huge blow and I'm not doing so well lately. I feel a need for recovery and that I can allow myself to procrastinate for a while still. And as it so turns out, not having to involve her at all gives me a lot of much desired feel-goods, that I will allow myself to take as a replacement for painkillers for a little while.

Note though, that I spend very little time with her, and notably not much time at home. This house is destined to be not mine in a close future after all. I live at friends', hotels' and clubs'.

I'm afraid I have no choice, but to live the rest of my life deprived of what she took from me. But I am not living under the stress of her presence right now and I do not intend to go back to it. I'm just, slowly getting back on my feet, to be ready to stand for the long and rather displeasant process of divorce, and then minus what more she took from me, I'll be truly freed from her. At least, I hope I am getting back of my feet. I might fail at that. If I see I stay stuck too long I'll try and reevaluate my options.

@gr8ful

It's, quite simple really. I have excluded her from the set of people that there is any point to communicate with. What purpose would it serve to confront her? That's why I have not and most likely will not.

She has volunteered that she was fired, but not anything else. She says from time to time that we need to talk and asks from to time where am I and what am I doing, to which I do not respond. At the beginning I have texted a few times that I was on an errand and that I didn't know when I come back, but now I'm just silent. She can see traces of my passages in the house.

posts: 2   ·   registered: Nov. 23rd, 2023   ·   location: France
id 8816078
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sisoon ( Moderator #31240) posted at 8:38 PM on Thursday, November 23rd, 2023

I'm sorry you've been betrayed.

Some thoughts...

1) I don't always agree with Cooley, but I think she nailed your case. Rage does, indeed, take many forms, some very strange.

2) You write:

I'm afraid I have no choice, but to live the rest of my life deprived of what she took from me.

Gently, that's 2 ways you're misleading yourself and/or us. First, you have choices. Second, from what you say, you don't miss her, so what has she taken from you other than illusion?

My point isn't that you've lost nothing. Rather, I'm saying that your self-talk is messed up, and you don't realize it - yet.

IMO, you'd be better off if you reported your thinking as what you think now and you know you've got a long way to go to heal.

3) The problem I see in the above is that one tends not to make the best decisions when angry and out of touch with reality.

4) She was fired? She may have a cause for action that could have significant impact to your finances. Her boss misused his power over her even if she initiated..

fBH (me) - on d-day: 66, Married 43, together 45, same sex ap
DDay - 12/22/2010
Recover'd and R'ed
You don't have to like your boundaries. You just have to set and enforce them.

posts: 30400   ·   registered: Feb. 18th, 2011   ·   location: Illinois
id 8816083
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standinghere ( member #34689) posted at 7:19 AM on Friday, November 24th, 2023

Same old story for all of us who come and tell their tale of starting the journey.

You got that right.

Usually, upon discovery, you only see the tip of the iceberg of the overall story of the relationship betrayal, and with no children, you likely don't want to see the whole berg. But, I can promise you, 30 years down the road you will wonder how deep it was, not that it will really matter.

In my case, with my FWS, the betrayals went far wider than the ultimate betrayal of the affair, with lies upon lies, secrets, about all kinds of stuff, most of it unrelated to the affair and predating it by years, and post dating it by years. Today, it's hard to believe she even told me all the shit she ultimately told me. True remorse is a sight to see.

As far as your current approach to things, you have no children, you don't desire any future with her, the most important thing is to heal from the betrayal, not let the injury fester.

Others make an interesting point about your mental state, but we don't really know what that is.

Way back, before the internet, and websites like this, the first woman I loved left me due to her newfound interest in adhering to her religion, after two years together. I didn't expect this. It was not as hellish as my wife's affair, but it was not easy. A lot of what you write reminds me of my own thinking at that time.

We didn't own a house, didn't have children, but our lives had changed to accommodate being together. Then we were not.

Slowly my life returned to what it had been before her, after I worked through some of the financial impacts of that change (sleeping on a camp sleeping bag on the floor in a rundown apartment that had no furniture for a year helped work through that, the next year I had a couch that someone abandoned and a sleeping mat for the floor).

Emotionally, I was stone cold for most of that first year.

What you have been through, 15 years, then this? I think that has to be far worse psychologically.

You might want to consider IC, I didn't know those things existed back then, especially for shit like this. It can help managing your understanding of your emotions around new relationships.

Yes, 35 years later, after learning a lot in MC, in the depths of the night, after having weathered the betrayal by my FWS, I sometimes find myself wondering about the woman from long ago. It doesn't really matter, it was her, not me, but, what really happened to lead to that outcome?

In IC, you will learn how to handle that, and help you prevent, as much as possible, it from unconsciously affecting your relationships with others.

AFTER the divorce, lawyer up, sue her employer, take the money and invest it.

Good luck.

FBH - Me - Betrayal in late 30's (now much older)
FWS - Her - Affair in late 30's (now much older )
4 Children
Her - Love of my life...still is.
Reconciled BUT!

posts: 1697   ·   registered: Jan. 31st, 2012   ·   location: USA
id 8816106
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Bigger ( Attaché #8354) posted at 12:55 PM on Friday, November 24th, 2023

Whats your present legal situation?

We get a lot of posters that state they are divorcing or separating, but then turns out they are still living together and neither has taken any action beyond words. Like if there are no kids chances are divorce is a relatively simple excel-process of changing assets into money (or a price) and discovering all collective dept. Then arranging how to divide in such a way as all stakeholders agree to (for example – if you have debt on a jointly-owned card or account the debt-owner has to agree it becomes solely your or her debt).

What tends to happen to these posters is that with time they learn how to live with – as you eloquently put it – with the pile of rubbish. It’s a constant reminder and nobody does anything about it while trying to avoid the stink and sight. Basically they remain in untreated infidelity, and IMHO that’s just as bad as stating you want to reconcile without demanding the affair be over.

So how far along in D are you? If the plan is to sell the house anyways then is it listed? You can sell, place the money in a bound account until divorce finalized and start renting. Alone. What you soon-to-be ex does is not your concern.

Regarding if the affair has slowed down…
Managers having affairs with their subordinates is a big career no-no. I wouldn’t be surprised if OM cooled off the affair both to protect his job and to save his marriage. If you were to complain to HR your WW job would be safe because the company would fear a strong sexual harassment case with the following financial compensation. The boss? His future would be short…

"If, therefore, any be unhappy, let him remember that he is unhappy by reason of himself alone." Epictetus

posts: 12647   ·   registered: Sep. 29th, 2005
id 8816108
Topic is Sleeping.
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