SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi all. It’s been a really long time (several years) since I’ve posted. I’m in a dating situation though now that I really need some feedback on before I decide how to move forward and/or whether to end it. I’m especially interested in hearing comments from the men on here.

I’ve been seeing a man since June 2021. We are exclusively seeing each other. We connect well, have a lot in common, same views, etc. However, there are some issues that are bothering me.

The first one is a bit TMI…. We haven’t had sex yet. He’s touched my boobs twice. He is extremely cuddly and we stay the night together at least once a week. Sometimes he will kiss me in bed, sometimes not. I’ve communicated with him that I’m ready for more physical intimacy. He talks about sex a fair bit in general, such as his prior partners, what "men" want, etc. I know he’s had some one night stands, as well as sex in serious relationships. Every time I bring it up, he tells me that there’s not a specific reason why he’s waiting. Some nights he’s tired, some nights tipsy, sometimes his stomach or head hurts. He has also said that once we have sex, his preference is to have sex every time we see each other. I’m very confused about the whole thing.

A few weeks ago, I shared some very private things with him about some insecurities I have with sex. I told him that I’m struggling because I feel unwanted, and explained why I feel that way. It was a great talk and his responses were understanding, but then nothing changed after that.

This weekend I asked him whether he considers me to be his girlfriend yet. He said no. I asked why, and he said it’s because we haven’t had sex yet. He then said that he’s "working on it" and he knows I’m ready. I asked what it was, and didn’t get a response. After that talk, I felt vulnerable and not great. It makes me want to pull away from him, and I’m considering ending things.

The other weird issue is that he’s never introduced a girl to his two best guy friends. When I ask why, he says it’s because it’s always "guys night" and he can’t bring a girl. That made no sense to me, and we had a couple disagreements about it. A couple weeks ago I found out that one of the guys was bringing a date to a few events. So I brought it up again, and got an invite to go. When I showed up on Friday, there was a third girl there who I later learned had slept with both his guy friends. She was flirting with my guy. She told me that she joins them a lot, so I feel misled. He says she shows up without an invite. They always go to the same place every week. I later learned that she’s going to be the female lead in a film he wrote and is acting in. The scene with her involves heavy flirting on a couch and then her leaning over to kiss him when the scene ends. No actual kiss, but I’m struggling with jealousy.

I just feel really confused about this whole thing. We see each other 2-3 days a week. We are traveling internationally together next month. He constantly tells me he’s glad he met me. He says that he only wants to see me and that he wants to be exclusive. But I feel undesired and confused. Any ideas?

I'm all for taking things slow, but nearly 8 months? That's glacial.

There's several red flags I'm seeing aside from that tho. 1. Him being less than honest about the guy's night chick is concerning - to me that shows some rather fuzzy boundaries. 2. The fact that you've explained the sex thing and he's coming up with some frankly ridiculous excuses to avoid it. 3. Him saying he 'expects' sex every time you get together... That's a huge red flag to me and reeks of entitlement. 4. The 'you're not my gf until we have sex' thing while he's holding sex hostage...

Nah girl this is way too many red flags imho. Sex is an important part of a healthy adult relationship and should be a natural and organic thing, not this weird power play nonsense. If I were in this kind of a situation, I'd definitely not waste any more time on it. Just my 0.02.

Hey Lonelygirl10, I remember you! Last I recall, you moved for your job and I trust things worked out well for you in your new town?

But I have to agree there are major, major red flags flying all around this man. Good for you for listening to your gut feelings. And that confusion? Well, lies create confusion as you know well. Obviously he is not sharing his whole truth after you brought this topic up, and sadly, he isn't likely to share it, if he thinks you wouldn't like what you heard. And I just got a reeeeallll bad feeling about that, like maybe he thinks he's "protecting" you from his problem(s) cause he really likes you. BTDT myself. Complicated stuff.

Could you just keep seeing him as a platonic friend? From what I eventually learned about my SAWH's decades of sexual history before we met, and after I learned the truth of what had gone on during our 4 years of cozy, cuddly all-weekend-long dates with always that invisible "something", I'd really recommend you not 'go there' with him. Wouldn't you hate to find out later on down the line, for example, that he had been using prostitutes or something he felt he could never - under any circumstances - share with you? This was precisely my man's sexual history, and nobody believed it, he hid it so well. He told me early on that before we started dating, he'd never had even one girlfriend... (in his mind, hookers didn't count). I'm still astounded at my gullibility in choosing to believe he was 'trying to tell me he was sexually inexperienced!' His lifestyle was easy to hide from me, since we didn't live together and he travelled a lot for work.

I am sorry there are so many obstacles with this guy, but I honestly think, just from what you shared, that you may be in the best place with him if you can just treat this relationship as a platonic dating thing.

It really sounds like he is being less than fully truthful and anyone deserves better than that. Maybe sit him down and have a conversation about the red flags Ellie listed and see how he responds and what his actions are. I think many of us learned to look at our partners actions and not their words during the affair. The same applies to any time during a relationship. A disconnect between words and actions is something that to me is screaming for more conversation and if it cannot be resolved then it's probably time to move on.

My most recent GF was someone who I thought was a great fit in many ways, but in reality she was not fully invested in the relationship long term and it seems like to her it was more enjoying our time together until someone better comes along. The what the heck part of this is she said "I love you" first and fairly early, so figuring out she was not really interested in progressing to a long term relationship had my brain and heart doing flip-flops for awhile with what I experienced as double speak. She at least had the decency to actually have the conversation. Maybe your companion doesn't have what it takes to have that conversation.

Sex is an important part of a healthy adult relationship and should be a natural and organic thing, not this weird power play nonsense.

I agree with Ellie's point here it has my spidey senses going off. Agree the sex should be organic and natural progression. 8 months is a long time to be making excuses especially a man. I wonder if he is asexual.

Yeah-sorry I'm sure this has been weird and upsetting.

This happened to one of my friends-dude said he was christian and waiting for marriage. And I reckon maybe he was because they did marry pretty quickly.

He was also keeping the unusually severe and prolonged case of blistering ass herpes he had, conveniently under wraps, until he thought he had wifey locked in (she filed as soon as she got a passing glance @ his infestilated lying ass junk-herpes would have been 1 thing but ALL the lies!).

Hetero dudes in the western world tend to have sex with the women they date-especially for many many months. You aren't having an over reaction or assuming too much-I would be EXTREMELY suspicious of this guy because he is behaving suspiciously af. And that's all just based on my cavewoman thoughts re when dudes usually put out and ignoring all the super questionable other stuff w his friend(?) group.

[This message edited by thisissogross at 6:40 PM, Tuesday, January 25th]

Thanks for all the comments. Several people commented that 7-8 months is waiting a long time. I agree, but I also try to not judge other peoples' preferences and boundaries on sex. It takes me longer than most of my female friends to be ready for sex with a new partner, so I try to be sensitive of that regarding other people.

I also know that in my past, I was having panic attacks when I tried to be with a new person after Dday and all the trauma with XWSO. I had to learn to disclose why to my new SO, and that took awhile and practice in getting it right. I don't experience that anymore, but I try to be considerate of the fact that I have no idea if my new SO is dealing with something similar. When I think about walking away from the situation, the thing that is holding me back is that I don't know if I should give him more time to feel comfortable enough to open up to me about what is going on.

From what I eventually learned about my SAWH's decades of sexual history before we met, and after I learned the truth of what had gone on during our 4 years of cozy, cuddly all-weekend-long dates with always that invisible "something", I'd really recommend you not 'go there' with him. Wouldn't you hate to find out later on down the line, for example, that he had been using prostitutes or something he felt he could never - under any circumstances - share with you?

This never even entered my mind, despite the fact that it was exactly what my XWSO was doing 10 years ago while with me. We have an out of the country trip planned in a few weeks, and I've been wondering if that is when it will happen. Now I'm feeling unsure whether I want it to then. Based on what I know about him, this type of thing would completely shock me.

The only other thing that I know that could be playing into the whole thing is that he is so, so supportive of female rights and viewpoints. Moreso than any man I've ever dated. Consent is important to him, and he's very supportive of women in the me too movement. But I've communicated several times that I am comfortable and I am ready. That's why I was hoping to get some male perspectives on here.

There's several red flags I'm seeing aside from that tho. 1. Him being less than honest about the guy's night chick is concerning - to me that shows some rather fuzzy boundaries. 2. The fact that you've explained the sex thing and he's coming up with some frankly ridiculous excuses to avoid it. 3. Him saying he 'expects' sex every time you get together... That's a huge red flag to me and reeks of entitlement. 4. The 'you're not my gf until we have sex' thing while he's holding sex hostage...

Yeah, I fully see the red flag with the girl at guys' night. He said she shows up uninvited, which I know is gaslighting. The part that really confuses me about the whole guys' night thing though is that I've never had a partner take that strong of a stance on it. Sure, men don't want their SO going every time. But he said that he's never introduced a girl to his two best guy friends because it's guys nights always, which just seems very weird to me. And the fact that he introduced me makes me feel special, except I really feel like I forced the invite for it since I kept bringing up the topic. I want my friends' opinions of who I'm dating, and I want my SO to like and be around my friends. So I'm just having a hard time wrapping my head around the issue, which I guess is not really an issue anymore since I've met them now.

The "expect" thing was my term, not his. I think he actually said "prefer." The reason why that stood out to me though is that I think it's weird to go from 7 months of not even touching a girl's boobs to preferring to have sex multiple times a week. It would be one thing if he didn't want actual sex, but there's no foreplay. Neither of us has touched below the pants, not even on top of clothes. I did point blank ask him if he's asexual, and he said no. He said that he enjoys sex a lot, and like I said, we he will talk about sex in a general way when we're talking about our past.

I'm so confused.

When I think about walking away from the situation, the thing that is holding me back is that I don't know if I should give him more time to feel comfortable enough to open up to me about what is going on.

What's his relationship history? Possibility he's never had sex (see performance anxiety)?

Performance anxiety can be a thing and if by itself could be understandable. Eight months is a long time not to get comfortable enough bring it up especially when your GF keeps asking.

The not labeling you as a GF without sex is weird when combined with his reluctance to have sex. The friend thing is weird also. What was driving that?

It's almost as if he is using you as a beard. Whether that's because he's asexual, gay, or has unrequited love for the actress would be the question. The last seems most in line with the oddities you mentioned.

I had to learn to disclose why to my new SO, and that took awhile and practice in getting it right. I don't experience that anymore, but I try to be considerate of the fact that I have no idea if my new SO is dealing with something similar. When I think about walking away from the situation, the thing that is holding me back is that I don't know if I should give him more time to feel comfortable enough to open up to me about what is going on.

I get what you're saying here, but I think it's important not to project your own things on to him. You've brought it up and have made your feelings pretty clear, and you've also made it sound like you're open to honest communication about it, but he is just coming up with (imho) really weird 'reasons' for what he's doing.

What is his history? Has he ever been married? LT relationships (like 5 years or more)? If he hasn't had any of those, given his age range, that's kind of a red flag in and of itself too. Because to me that would make it seem like he is one of those that likes the chase but loses interest and moves on quickly after the chase is done. So if he's dated a ton and has never had a LT relationship.... eeeeehhhhh, that's not great news imho.

he is so, so supportive of female rights and viewpoints. Moreso than any man I've ever dated. Consent is important to him, and he's very supportive of women in the me too movement.

YOU want sex. Him refusing you sex after you've made it abundantly clear that this is something you want in this relationship is just odd. I mean, what on earth does this have to do with consent or metoo? This just seems like another really weird non-sequitur excuse to me.

I just.... IME if a guy wants to have sex with a woman, they don't need months and months of touching a boob and a treatise-level discussion on it, especially if the woman communicates attraction and willingness. Most guys are more than happy to oblige. I don't blame you for being confused cus this whole situation just sounds so bizarre to me. And I gotta say too - those first 6-12 months of dating are the time when you typically can't keep your hands off each other, so it is just uber weird that he's being like this. Again, just my read on things.

This will sound like a strange question.

However, in my line of work, I've seen a lot.

Is his father still alive?

Wow, you have gotten such a range of things to consider here; I wish this forum had been here when I was dating my BF!

But I'm sorry to sound like a wet blanket, all the same. As I suggested, he may just enjoy what you have, not want to get too deep, and/or not want to share his "dirty laundry" with you. (And yikes, thisissogross, I never even thought about an STI, but yeah, could be something to that. That poor bride!)

I always wonder, if my SAWH had shared his sordid truths with me, would I have immediately dumped him, as he no doubt feared? We were steady pals and dinner companions at a time in my life I needed a good friend. Who knows, I could see where I'd have just transitioned him to "friend zone" and nothing really would have changed for us. Instead, I naively assumed he just needed a "push" to take the next step to a deeper commitment - as my father and counselor both suggested - so my informed choice was taken away, until 4 years after our marriage. After he re-offended and got busted by me, ALL our friends and both our families were just as shocked as I was. They all believed my SAWH's introverted-with-the-ladies bashfulness would have ruled out such raunchy behavior; WRONG. His coworker buddies, with whom he spent weeks at a time traveling the country, held that he was a "one in a million" kind of guy. Specifically (and this is what I'm also wondering about your guy) they said more than once to me that he'd decline to go with them when the rest of the team would go out to strip clubs. They all did this fairly frequently in certain towns (like Daytona Beach, Florida or any big city. He worked on a pro sports team.)

Added to friends and family's assessments, I spent 4 years getting to "know" my BF and the whole time, thought he was a total sweetie. While he was less romantic than I'd have preferred, I appreciated that he was a gentleman who didn't push my boundaries (like you, I'd been burned in the past by guys (edited) So I cannot overstate how huge of a gut punch this was to find out. I wasn't in a hurry for sex, I'd sort of BTDT, ha. But as for him, I figured he was a big boy and he could tell me if he was feeling frustrated or something. Nada....

You know, this explanation he gives you about 'guys nights out' sound like a veiled way of admitting they get together to "cruise." That's how I'd take it. Like a guy doesn't bring a girlfriend along when going out for those kinds of things. Got any Hooters in your area? That's what I'm wondering, now that I focus on his not bringing you along. Inconsistent with his #MeToo stance, to say the least...

Maybe it's not really this complicated, I don't know; we sure have thrown the book at him. Hope it becomes clearer for you!

[This message edited by Superesse at 10:19 PM, Tuesday, January 25th]

What is his history? Has he ever been married? LT relationships (like 5 years or more)?

I'm not completely clear. I asked him about prior relationships, and he said his longest one was over a year. He walked me generally through his history since college (he's late 30s now). It all sounded pretty normal to me. But, later, he was talking about a girl I had never heard of. I asked him about it, and he explained that he hadn't previously mentioned her because she wasn't a girlfriend. I asked him if he would list me as part of his girlfriend/relationship history, and he said probably not because we aren't to that level yet (granted, this was like only 3-4 months into it at that point). I realize this sounds weird, but I don't necessarily list every single guy that I've spent a couple months with in my history. I list the main ones, the ones that were defined, or that I loved. So I didn't think too much of it at the time.

Possibility he's never had sex (see performance anxiety)?

Unless he's lied, he's definitely had sex. He's told me about his sexual history.

I just.... IME if a guy wants to have sex with a woman, they don't need months and months of touching a boob and a treatise-level discussion on it, especially if the woman communicates attraction and willingness. Most guys are more than happy to oblige. I don't blame you for being confused cus this whole situation just sounds so bizarre to me. And I gotta say too - those first 6-12 months of dating are the time when you typically can't keep your hands off each other, so it is just uber weird that he's being like this. Again, just my read on things.

That's what all my female friends have said. I just don't have any guy friends to bounce it off, and I try to stay away from stereotypes that "all men" want sex immediately. But, it is very different than any other relationship I've been in. Usually I'm the one putting on the brakes and slowing things down, and so it's resulted in me feeling pretty insecure and undesired.

You know, this explanation he gives you about 'guys nights out' sound like a veiled way of admitting they get together to "cruise." That's how I'd take it. Like a guy doesn't bring a girlfriend along when going out for those kinds of things. Got any Hooters in your area? That's what I'm wondering, now that I focus on his not bringing you along. Inconsistent with his #MeToo stance, to say the least...

Oh, no, definitely not. I've been to the place that they go. It's mostly families. Not even a real bar. And he gets tagged in the photos online by his friends there, so I really have no concerns about him lying about that part.

Is his father still alive?

Both parents are alive and still married to each other.

I realize this sounds weird, but I don't necessarily list every single guy that I've spent a couple months with in my history. I list the main ones, the ones that were defined, or that I loved. So I didn't think too much of it at the time.

Nah that doesn't sound weird. But he's late 30's and his longest relationship was just over a year? Meaning your relationship is quickly approaching that. I mean, I get that everyone is different and all, but to be in late 30's and have had NO long-term relationships or marriage(s) is just pretty atypical. And for me that makes me wonder why, no less than but different from the way I'd wonder why someone in their late 30's had been married and divorced 2 or 3 times. My questions are 1. why has he not had a real LT thing? 2. What happened to end those relationships?

Kind of a side note, but I was thinking about this thread last night and all those 'history' convos that you go through when you're first dating someone and you know? My xwh had been married before he and I were. And I never, not once, asked him about his part in the end of his first marriage, nor did he ever volunteer anything about it. Which is weird for me once I started thinking on it. I know whenever I get back out there, I would for sure be able to talk about how my marriage ended - both my xwh's cheating and the part I played in it too and the things I learned about myself and relationships in the process.

I bring that up because I don't think it's ever realistic to think that someone would be late 30's-early 40's and not have some baggage with them. But it's about what they DO with the baggage that is more pertinent IMHO. If they've had a bunch of relationships end and blame it all on the other people as to why, that's a red flag. If they've not been able to form a meaningful LT commitment to someone... yeah, that's kind of a red flag too. Not that there may not be legitimate reasons for it, but just doesn't sit quite right to me.

I guess the better questions for you here are: is this guy worth this much worrying and hassle this early on for you? Knowing that in a typical dating scenario after this many months, it's more usual to be in the twitterpated-leave-the-party-early-to-go-home-and-monkey-pile stage than in the wtf-is-going-on-here stage. What do YOU want here? And more importantly, is this person capable of providing that?

The sex thing doesn't bother me at all. It's his caginess and outright lying about the friendship group. That would make me run.

"He constantly tells me he’s glad he met me. He says that he only wants to see me and that he wants to be exclusive. But I feel undesired and confused. Any ideas?" He's making you feel undesired and confused. Of course he's happy that he's met you and wants to be exclusive. He gets to have his cake (you) and eat it too (his new leading lady).

I promise you, there are better men out there. I briefly dated a guy that sounds a lot like this dude. In my case, I lost out to one too many Dungeons and Dragon games lol. I'm so happy that I stopped seeing him, because I met a man that's the ideal for me :)

You deserve more. Dating shouldn't be this hard. He doesn't deserve you.

Ellie makes a great point about age-appropriate life histories, and why sometimes, for whatever reason, we don't think about that. Maybe it's due to everyone's wanting in some way to be able to 'start over' or make up for our own lost time. Like "I have a past, myself." I know I felt like that in my early 40's when I met my SAWH, then a tender 35 years old and to me, still a young guy. I benchmarked that with hearing my father say, after he got to know the BF, that it wasn't odd, he'd known guys in his engineering school who didn't even think about relationships until they were 40! (Actually he said "...until their mothers' died"!) Of course, my father likely did not mean "sex" when he said "relationships," but as a confused middle-aged woman, I didn't clarify that detail. I just concluded I'd stumbled across what my father called a "late bloomer" and was grateful he didn't have a bunch of X's to deal with!

Nobody else has brought this thought up, so I'll throw it out there, could he be 'on the spectrum' somewhere? Search "Aspergers and relationships" and see what you think. My BF certainly fit some of the criteria, but at that time, I'd never heard of it. Very categorical in their thinking.

I googled Aspergers and relationships, and nothing that I’m reading seems to fit.

My questions are 1. why has he not had a real LT thing? 2. What happened to end those relationships?

For the longest one that ended, he acknowledged it was his fault and explained why. I thought it was a very mature reaction. The other ones just seemed less serious and had various reasons. I don’t know why he hasn’t had a longer relationship though. My longest one is 4 years. Never married.

I guess the better questions for you here are: is this guy worth this much worrying and hassle this early on for you? Knowing that in a typical dating scenario after this many months, it's more usual to be in the twitterpated-leave-the-party-early-to-go-home-and-monkey-pile stage than in the wtf-is-going-on-here stage. What do YOU want here? And more importantly, is this person capable of providing that?

Personal disclosure time. I had some health issues around 2 years ago that caused a lot of pain with sex. It’s the primary reason that my last relationship ended. After over a year in PT, I’m mostly normal again. However, when I met current SO, I was still having issues and kind of liked that he went slow and wasn’t pushy on sex. I don’t think I want to date someone who wants to have sex multiple times a week. But I’m also at the point where I do want physical intimacy. So I think that’s why I’m still in this relationship and trying to balance/figure out what I actually want.

61 yr old male here. Being specific because even now, if I date, intimacy has to be part of it starting pretty early. I don't speak for every man, but I'm just betting that I speak for many, if not most.

Look, social compatibility is important in an LTR, but if I'm being put off sexually, I'll interpret it as a lack of desire. Sure, maybe there's reasons/justifications, but to my mind if she's into me then she won't be able to keep her hands off of me regardless. And sans that, I'm moving on instead of dealing with the mental/emotional gymnastics.

Life's too short to navigate some kind of sexual labyrinth.

Is his father still alive?

Both parents are alive and still married to each other.

I offer this just as something I'd never thought about until I saw it happen multiple times.

I've had a number of male clients who lived a fairly normal, ostensibly heterosexual life. Until their father died. And then, apparently relieved of the perceived obligation or the very real constraints of their father's positions on the subject, they came out and began to live the life they had denied themselves until their father's death. The first time I saw it happen, it was a guy who had been married for 15 years and had a child by his wife. The second time I saw it happen, the guy was living precisely the lifestyle he perceived his father had prescribed for him. The third time I saw it happen, the wife had some inkling something was not as she believed/wanted it to be but she couldn't put her finger on it. These are just a few of many examples.

Long story short, if you can rule out medical issues he is protecting you from, and you can't put your finger on any other explanation, let this hypothesis marinate.

Good luck.

[This message edited by Wiseoldfool at 3:54 AM, Wednesday, January 26th]

Someone in this forum said something along the lines of if you have to wonder about the relationship, it's not a good relationship, but said it way better than that. Hopefully they will jump in with the better quote.

Also, if you as a woman want sex after enough time for the man to figure out if you are safe, and he isn't jumping on that without a CLEAR reason, he's hiding something. It doesn't matter what it is, it is dishonest. If it is emotional or physical, he should have plainly told you at this point since you brought it up. No fuzzy answers allowed. This is not good in my mind for what that is worth.

Sorry to be so blunt but it just hits me wrong.