SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

No, not actually. Just wanted to get your attention before I go into a long winded rant!

I feel like I’m on my fucking own here. God knows I love him to pieces but CHRIST I wish this guy had more ambition. It’s like there’s always an excuse.
Since we’ve been together he’s been depressed. He wished he had health insurance so he could "drown in prozac." He gets an offer for health insurance and ignores every notice until I catch one in the mail and sign him up. Now all of a sudden he doesn’t believe in psychiatry.
He complains his job is too unstable and doesn’t provide enough income and he’s always broke. Did he fill out any applications though? Of course not. Why would he? So I do. Sure enough he gets a stable job. Guess what happens next, no really I insist. He gets fired. Now he’s unemployed and I’m stuck paying the rent, the groceries, the car insurance, the internet. This isn’t the first time I’ve had to shoulder the money problems, either. Far from it.
The best part is during this steady job he still complains that after the bills he barely has enough to enjoy himself. I sympathize with that, I’ve definitely felt that before. But he held the fucking job for a year before getting fired without looking into anything with better prospects. No trade school, several lazily forgotten attempts to get a CDL (mind you, I made every fucking permit test appointment), no applications. Just complaints.
What annoys me the most is the amount of energy he puts into his video games. He gets so angry he’s made holes in doors, walls, and spent hundreds of dollars on new controllers. I have spent so much on furniture to make our apartment look nice and there’s dents and scratches on these pieces. But then I’m the bad guy if I tell him to stop caring so much about the fucking videogame because he’s depressed and its "all I have to enjoy myself." WHAT THE FUCK. There were so many times I didn’t want to go home from work because I knew what was waiting for me was banging, crashing, and hours long rants about how the game is bullshit that would then morph into why his life was so shitty. And it has been. He definitely has not had great luck. But how long are we gonna complain about how bad everything is and when are we gonna start doing something about it? And I sit there and listen and try to give him advice or comfort, but why would I be excited to go home exactly? Am I not human?
I feel like every argument ends with me being wrong. With me being selfish. With me not understanding. His family chastizes him and makes him feel like a loser every day, I’m the only one in this guys corner giving him words of encouragement but I’m the fucking bad guy when I say anything. We have yet another appointment for him to get his CDL tomorrow. I’m in the middle of studying for finals for graduate school and he expects me to fill out his applications for him when he gets his permit. And if I get mad about it I just "hate him" and I’m "selfish." I think I’m gonna peel my fucking face off I’m so angry.
He had chronic back pain, I got him an appointment. I’m the only one that cooks and I serve him FIRST. I make note of the things he likes: Aaron Judge, Kings of Leon, he said he wanted a chain necklace. I listen and I get him gifts based on these things because I like seeing him excited and happy and surprised. The last time he surprised me with a gift was with roses on valentine’s day — IN OUR FIRST YEAR TOGETHER.
This is not to say he’s some asshole. He’s always there when I need him. He’d give me rides to work at 5 am every day when I had my first cashier job. He’d pick me up in the middle of the city if I was out with my friends and didn’t want to take the train. He’d run and get me gatorade if I was sick. I love him to pieces and I really can’t picture my life without him. I just wish he would change. I have no intention of leaving him but he needs to be shaken up and I don’t know how to do that.
Since my A I’ve been mentally flogging myself on a daily basis and I’m finally starting to come out of it, but these resentments make me feel like shit just for having. "Communication is key," yes I know. We’ve been together for 8 years of course we fucking communicate. Yes I avoid "you" statements. I am nothing if not a gentle communicator. Well, at least I was. Within the past couple of months I’ve had outbursts I’ve never had before and I really don’t like it. I have screamed until I lost my voice and my face was red with anger. Once I come out of it I feel gross and embarrassed. This is how he’s always communicated his anger and for some stupid reason I feel like that means I can do the same, but it really gets us nowhere and only makes things worse. I’m really tired.
I regret the A every single day. Not one second has it intruded in my mind without me cringing and becoming overcome with disgust. Despite my grievances I don’t think to myself "you know what? Actually I was totally justified." It was my very gross and selfish way of rebelling rather than having an uncomfortable conversation. I imprinted a bunch of desirable qualities onto a man I barely knew and now I gotta live with an invisible red "A" that I see tattooed to my forehead every time I look in the mirror.
Now that I’ve typed this all out most of my anger has been transferred into my computer and I feel better. Look, I love my husband more than anything. He’s not the worst guy ever. I know he tries and I want to help him. He gets better every day. I understand him better than anyone and he understands me and loves me like crazy. I want us to run into the sunset and live happily ever after. Obviously I know a marriage isn’t all sunshine and rainbows, I’ve been with him for 8 years. I know I’m not innocent (obviously), and he has plenty of grievances with me as well, but at the end of the day we only want to be with each other. I wish this was easier sometimes.
Rant over!

There is never ever a good reason for an affair. Never.

There is, however, good reason to end a relationship. And IMHO he & his behaviors check almost every one of those boxes. I'm sorry this is not probably what you wanted or expected to hear. He may have a good heart, but he does not sound like a good adult.

I just wish he would change.

He is not a diaper and thus you can not change him. You can't nice him into wanting to change, buy him enough things to make him want to change, spoil him into wanting to change, mother him into wanting him to change, manage his life into him wanting to change or have magical powers that make him want to change.

You have assumed the mother role in this relationship and he the spoiled rotten brat role. From what I read, his family is quite used to this behavior from him and has thus [on some level] washed their hands of him and his antics.

I can't tell you what to do, and I can't tell you what to tolerate. I can tell you it OK to be sad after leaving if you choose to do so. He may man up but more likely he will probably spend the rest of his life letting you know how much he blames you for his "misfortune" so you feel guilty for the rest of yours.

I can tell you if you don't, you are setting yourself up for this scenario being Groundhog Day for the rest of your life.

I love him to pieces and I really can’t picture my life without him. I just wish he would change. I have no intention of leaving him but he needs to be shaken up and I don’t know how to do that.

What is it with people listing a bunch of abusive behavior, then listing positive attributes as if to defend the abuser, and finishing up with, "But I'm not leaving, I love him"? What are we supposed to do with that? What are you supposed to do with that? Just be miserable? And lest you think he's not an abuser, he's destroying your furniture, sponging off of you while he acts like a child, and bitching that it's not enough.

Same thing, but different relationship dynamic: My BFF's son has no motivation to better himself. None. He's 26, quite intelligent, has ample emotional and financial support, but works part time in a deli and dedicates his time and energy to a semi-successful Twitch video game following that brings in a couple hundred dollars a month. My BFF has been "pushing the boulder up the hill" since he was in middle school. She pushed him through high school; she pushed him to college where he promptly flunked out; she pushed him into coding camp; pushed him into an associates in game design; she pays for his therapy. And he still just slings sandwiches part time, plays video games at all hours, and lives in filth with four roommates. He thinks that when his roommates move out of state at the end of their lease, he'll be able to move home with BFF. He drives her NUTS when he's there because he sleeps all day. He doesn't know it yet, but he's got another think coming. She doesn't want him there. BFF is pretty sure that his life plan is to wait out his parents and use his inheritance to survive while doing what he wants.

Are you willing to keep pushing your H's boulder up the hill forever, financing his gaming tantrums and being miserable?

I’m the only one that cooks and I serve him FIRST.

Serve yourself first. And I don't mean dinner.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 11:27 PM, Monday, December 9th]

Chaos and SacredSoul33, thank you for your messages. I really appreciate you both taking the time to give me advice. No, there is never a good reason for an affair. That was just a joke, perhaps poorly timed!

I'm a bit at a loss for words, but I hear both of you. I'm not trying to defend him, I just truly cannot picture my life without him. It's very scary. I had considered it before, but the thought of not being with him is actually terrifying to me. Not in a way where I'm worried about how I'll take care of myself, I've always been an independent person. It's just that he's my partner and we have shared so much of each other and as annoying as it sounds I love him.

Serve yourself first. And I don't mean dinner.

This was my thought process when I had my A. I was only thinking about what I wanted and completely disregarded how it would hurt him and our connection to each other. I'm not exactly my biggest critic and as you can see in my angry post I didn't mention any of my own failings prior to the A. Now I can say that I'm getting better at combating my own self-centeredness but I feel like I have a history of not being a good wife. I didn't make much of an effort to help him with his depression and other personal struggles, but now I'm better. Maybe not the best, but better. Because of this, I feel like he deserves another shot or some more time now that I can confidently say I'm giving my all.

From what I read, his family is quite used to this behavior from him and has thus [on some level] washed their hands of him and his antics.

I get what you're saying. When I said his family is always criticizing him, I meant it more as a defense for myself -- as in I'm the only one on his team. His family members have been his biggest critics since he could walk, unfortunately. IMO this has been a major road block for him and why he struggles so much.

The good days really do weigh out the bad. I just don't think I can say it's all his fault. It does take two to tango.

One last thing -- What's ground hog day? I'm not very hip and unfortunately the reference went right over my head.

One last thing -- What's ground hog day?

It’s a movie. Bill Murray plays an obnoxious weather man who somehow gets trapped living the same day (Groundhog Day) over and over again.

I didn't make much of an effort to help him with his depression and other personal struggles, but now I'm better.

Help him how? How are you going to help him with his depression when he "doesn't believe in psychiatry"? How are you supposed to help someone who won't help themselves? You okay with being the one to manage his life while he's literally playing games instead of doing his part to support your family? I get your desire to atone for your transgressions, but I think you should set some limits. You don't need to wear a hairshirt indefinitely. That doesn't help anyone, least of all him.

I'm not trying to defend him, I just truly cannot picture my life without him. It's very scary.

I get that. Oh boy, do I get that. But take a look at the tagline beneath my posts: Your nervous system will always choose a familiar hell over an unfamiliar heaven.

Are you in IC?

What is it with people listing a bunch of abusive behavior, then listing positive attributes as if to defend the abuser

Seriously??? HE is the abuser? From her one-sided description, from one in her own words brutally betrayed her H, he sounds like he’s lazy, suffering from depression, and rants about video games. Pretty unattractive traits in a man to be sure (if accurate) but can someone tell me how this constitutes severe abuse?

I absolutely see hard evidence of abuse in this relationship. How about this:

Since my A

So adultery isn’t abuse? Apparently, it’s perfectly understandable if the BH is lazy.

Within the past couple of months I’ve had outbursts I’ve never had before and I really don’t like it. I have screamed until I lost my voice and my face was red with anger. Once I come out of it I feel gross and embarrassed.

Red-faced screaming until voice is shot? Oh that couldn’t possibly be abusive since, what, he had it coming?

I see a man who’s been abused. Codling her with comforting excuses does not serve her well. Perhaps she should divorce his lazy ass, but don’t put the victim halo over her head.

He is not a diaper and thus you can not change him.

Just added that to the SI quote thread!

It is always worthwhile for a WS to do the work of confronting their own moral failings, unhealthy motivations, and broken logic. It is not always worthwhile to pursue reconciliation. Sometimes, in rebuilding genuine self-worth (as opposed to cheap self-indulgence), you realize that your betrayed spouse is not a healthy partner for you. It takes courage to face that, and affairs can be the coward's way of avoiding reality.

Seriously??? HE is the abuser? From her one-sided description, from one in her own words brutally betrayed her H, he sounds like he’s lazy, suffering from depression, and rants about video games. Pretty unattractive traits in a man to be sure (if accurate) but can someone tell me how this constitutes severe abuse?

"Severe abuse" are your words, not mine. You don't think "banging, crashing, and hours long rants" and "getting so angry he’s made holes in doors, walls, and spent hundreds of dollars on new controllers" is abusive? Gaming instead of working? Refusing to treat his mental illness? Weaponized incompetence? Alright, I guess that's your prerogative, but I think it's abusive.

So adultery isn’t abuse?

Who said that? I sure didn't.

Perhaps she should divorce his lazy ass, but don’t put the victim halo over her head.

What halo? She can be an abuser (infidelity) and a victim (his nonsense, which predates hers) at the same time, and so can he. It sounds like a huge dysfunctional mess to me, and one with very little hope for a positive outcome, based on my experience with his type.

It is always worthwhile for a WS to do the work of confronting their own moral failings, unhealthy motivations, and broken logic. It is not always worthwhile to pursue reconciliation. Sometimes, in rebuilding genuine self-worth (as opposed to cheap self-indulgence), you realize that your betrayed spouse is not a healthy partner for you. It takes courage to face that, and affairs can be the coward's way of avoiding reality.

1000% this. As always, BSR nails it - with kindness.

Seriously??? HE is the abuser? From her one-sided description, from one in her own words brutally betrayed her H, he sounds like he’s lazy, suffering from depression, and rants about video games. Pretty unattractive traits in a man to be sure (if accurate) but can someone tell me how this constitutes severe abuse?

I didn’t see anyone quantify the abuse, use the word severe.

He did abuse her- he expected her to financially support him, take care of all the details in their lives, show no appreciation or reciprocal acts of trying to meet any of her fundamental needs. That’s abuse, as You can’t marry someone to have a servant and it does have a strong negative effect on a persons mental health when that happens.

However, an A is abuse as well. So I side with you that she is not only a victim but a perpetrator. So no halo there, but I didn’t feel that’s what the other posters were doing.

Gentle Mango-

You are in a severely codependent relationship. He may not believe in therapy. Focus on you and getting your own. I am not saying that harshly, simply that the only person you can control is yourself. You need to focus on healing and being kinder to a man you have now severely traumatized. Screaming at him shows no accountability over that.

I don’t think your marriage is salvageable without both people being willing to work on themselves. And now that you had the affair that is the first damage that now will have to be addressed in order for this to go anywhere near a reconciliation.

Do your part of the equation in getting therapy, working on yourself and developing more awareness of why you would stay in a relationship where you severely resent someone and you can figure out this relationship with much clearer eyes.

I know for me my resentment wasn’t quite on the surface like yours is. It made me feel entitled to have an affair. But entitlement is a lie to one’s self to justify the affair. I learned that by not dealing with my resentments I cause myself and him more damage. Developing boundaries and stopping people pleasing and being avoidant was some of my early work. Sharing that with you to give you a starting point.

[This message edited by hikingout at 6:07 PM, Tuesday, December 10th]

Ok ladies, I stand corrected: laziness and yelling at a video game is abuse. Curious, I found no such definitions in any dictionary I just looked at, but whatevs.

That definition detracts from genuine abuse (like adultery and screaming) in my opinion, but if your (re)definition comforts you, that’s all that matters.

Is weaponized incompetence abuse?

Weaponized incompetence involves manipulation and control, which makes it a form of psychological or emotional abuse. In addition to having to take on more responsibilities, the victim often must deal with difficult feelings such as frustration, resentment, and exhaustion.

Kicking holes in walls and damaging furniture is physically violent. Explosive outbursts. Throwing things. Impulsively disregarding the importance of NOT damaging belongings. Subjecting someone else to your uncontrolled rage.

If it was a WS doing those things to a BS, would you think that it was abusive? I bet you would. But if a BS acts out, it's minimized. Happens all the time on here. The WS is expected to buck up and take it because they're the villain. And the WS often also buys into being the villain, so they think that they deserve it, and they suffer through it, and they shouldn't.

I can sympathize with a Wayward spouse having to see the destruction that their actions caused. I myself Pulled a 7 foot tall bookcase off the wall and broke the dishware that was gifted from our wedding on it to the floor. It was very unusual behavior for me. I think that what I did was violent, but not abuse. It was the only thing I remember violently doing after she confessed. Granted, I could not do much since I was still recovering from Back surgery when it she confessed and when I tore the bookcase down.
Was it abuse?
I am not sure. I definitely didnt do anything that might be considered aggressive to her outside of call her names after the fact. I loved my wife, the pain of knowing I was not loved as much by her was overwhelming. I dont think a spouse regardless of what they have done deserves to be hurt. I think it might lead to tit for tat behavior as well as an escalation in the behavior.
Continued violent outbursts I think do count as abuse. I think the largest part of my belief in that, is that you know its a problem but refuse to get a handle on it. Like Alcoholism.
I think my ex wife is a wonderful woman. She does not deserve to have her affair define who she is. She is a woman who made horrible, painful decisions and hurt not just me, or herself, but her family and mine. She is also a great mother and a great person who deserves respect.
We all fall short of of the Glory of...
We are all fallible.
We can be given Grace
We forget to recognize that regardless of peoples actions, standings, accomplishments or beliefs, that we all have value. Maybe GentleMango does not see hers due to her actions? My ex wife didnt see hers and at times still does not.
It is her choice to stay and Submit herself to her husbands behavior, or she can choose to leave.
I agree with those who say that the Wayward has a choice to divorce as well. Its not the outcome people hope for. I enjoy Happy Endings where people overcome the odds, but I also recognize that its not real life and sometimes the damage is to great to save a sinking ship.

Gr8ful,

I don’t think a man who plays too many video games or is lazy is necessarily abusive.

A man who refuses to do anything in the relationship for a long term is guilty of neglect which is abuse.I would say the same thing if this was happening to a MAN. Let’s say he works, she stays home all day and now he has to come home do all the cooking, parenting, errands, appointment making, grocery shopping, laundry, cleaning, serve her dinner, and never gets any appreciation or any consideration towards having his needs met. What would you call that?

No matter his behavior, that does not justify an affair and no one is saying it does. It justifies her leaving. Which she can still do even though she cheated.

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:01 PM, Tuesday, December 10th]

Not a runner up-

No what you are saying is not abuse. A bs will react in the ways you describe when the pain is so raw, fresh and intense. I think it would be hard to find a bs who didn’t say some harsh things or break a few things in the process of their discovery period.

We are saying he took advantage of her in a patterned way long term. Treated her like a servant. That is abuse to use someone’s love to get them to take care of you without little regard to the mental and physical exhaustion that may cause. (Different than if he was unable to due to a health issue)

End t/j

[This message edited by hikingout at 9:00 PM, Tuesday, December 10th]

No what you are saying is not abuse. A bs will react in the ways you describe when the pain is so raw, fresh and intense. I think it would be hard to find a bs who didn’t say some harsh things or break a few things in the process of their discovery period.

I'm a big believer in everyone needing to own their own stuff, and I must disagree. Calling names is verbal abuse, plain and simple. Just because you cheated on me doesn't mean it's okay for me to lash out at you and call you names. I'm solely responsible for my behavior, my integrity.

I'm no angel. (No halo here!) I kicked a hole in the wall when my H ticked me off concerning something infidelity-related. He wasn't in the house when it happened, and I agree that one incident isn't necessarily abusive, but there's a lot of context to consider. Had my kids been home and had I scared them, that would be abusive. CPS would not like that. Had I continued to kick holes in the wall and brought hate and discontent to the household repeatedly, that's abusive. Had Notarunnerup's wife been witness to the bookcase being toppled and felt fearful that he could turn his wrath on her next, that could be considered abusive.

This is a really interesting conversation.

I don’t want to detract further from Op getting support.

My response was really in reference to not a runner up’s post. He knocked something over without threat or injury to his ws. He had a few moments he isn’t proud of. Not going to shame him (or you) for that matter.

Calling names is not just using expletives. And needing a time or to to break something, break it.

We have never in our marriage name called, yelled or through any kind of hissy fit. But there were tense moments and hard exchanges that were shortly curtailed. I think it’s a stretch to think that person is an abuse person. But I really think we are getting away from supporting OP. Might be a good thread to start in general?

I was thinking the same thing - that we really need to wait until OP chimes back in before continuing. This went a little haywire.

I'm not trying to shame anyone. I just want all of us to come out on the other side of this as healthy as possible.