SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Some updates, still not 100%

nothing of note about boss or any other potential AP at this point, however she has said a couple times that "you probably have something to listen to me in the car and everywhere else anyway" this was before i actually put it in the vehicle.
She is still sketchy with phone, but now has a word guess game is what she seems to flip to whenever i enter the room.

had another fight last weekend that had me scratching my head.
I was pissed about her ignoring me 2 nights in a row and said as much the second night, and then in the morning proceeded like nothing happened and tried to have a nice day. She brought it up and I said after her no intimacy hold out for almost a month, i was a tad starved for any affection. She replied that she was hurt and needed time to recover. I said oh, is that why you shaved yourself completely bald? I said i have asked you that before and you have told me for years that you would not do it because it was too itchy, then you want to not kiss or touch me for a month and all of a sudden you shave...

I said why would you do this, who was it for.... she then sarcastically said it was for my boyfriend what do you think. During the shouting match she also said that she had not been faithful at all the entire marriage in her sarcastic bitchy tone.
I said and what about the airport when you told me he was not there and the next story was he was there but not in the same departure area. She said oh, i fucked him in the bathroom, is that what you want me to say. I said i just want the truth and she then left.

I have been still trying to do the 180.

Why are you torturing yourself like this bud, she clearly shaved for whomever she's screwing. All the red flags are there...

She's an epic narcissist who loves to push your buttons...

When will enough be enough?

It seems like she is in fight flight mode every time you discuss this, is that accurate?

If so, you might try another approach. Perhoas write out your concerns for her to respond to. Your query on shaving is a very legitimate question and she is ignoring that. But going into fight mode obscures reasoning and listening. Putting the concern in writing might be a way to move past this communication gap.

Explain the communication gap as you see it, hence why you are writing to her instead.

Tell her your concern, concisely. One sentence about the shaving and why you are concerned. Then back it up with other facts that brought you to that concern. She never shaved before. We are not being intimate. It isn't a comfort issue, actually the opposite according to her. Etc.

Then ask her if she understands your concern. And invite her to tell you what facts you are missing, what you are not seeing.

It will be informative to see if she can then communicate like a reasonable, involved adult who is concerned about the relationship. If she does, great. If she can't do it even then, that's a whole other reason for you to be concerned.

Fwiw, the shaving is a major red flag to me. The only thing positive I can think of is if she did for you and is about to start having sex again and wanted to show effort for you, do something special for you. That is a possibility. If that was the case and then you accused her because of it, from the very thing she did for you, then I can see her being upset. But I would have thought she might have mentioned that in the argument at the time if that was the scenario and it sounds like she did not.

This shaving red flag reminds me of a previous poster... SpaceGhost0007... whose wife did the same thing. He said he had always liked having "a little grass on the playground". Pluse, he had noticed some lingerie drying that he had never seen before.

At this point he already had a private investigator's report of her cheating with her boss whenever he would leave town on business. He already had the evidence. So, when he confronted her he asked her about the shaving. He told her that she knew that he didn't like it, and she had always said she did not like it because it made her itch. So, he said that if she did not do it for him, and she did not do it for herself, then who did she do it for? That is when she started crying, etc.

To my way of thinking this shaving is a really large red flag, but in and of itself means nothing. You need more if you are going to hang your marriage on this.

You need to chill out and observe her going forward. You have received numerous excellent suggestions. You need to develop some impulse control and not confront when you may or may not have any evidence. When you first posted several posters told you to keep your mouth shut and your ears and eyes open. Just quietly collect evidence.

The 180 is designed to help you control your impulses, as it helps you gain some space and hopefully clarify your thinking. If she is actually actively having an affair, no amount of talking will help at this stage until she pulls her head out of her behind.

One thing about the 180. It is not designed to punish or try to get her to chase after you instead of her AP. It tells you to be pleasant when you speak with her. I have used the example in the past of you walking down the street and a stranger comes up to you looking confused and asks you for directions. You would not be rude or snippy. You would calmly tell them what they want to know and then go on your way. That is the way to interact with your wife. There are 33 points to the hard 180. Not one point tells you to be mean, etc. The points tell you to be pleasant and cheerful. Act as if you are moving on with your life with or without her. She can join you if she wishes.

Good luck.

[This message edited by lrpprl at 7:29 PM, Sunday, October 20th]

I am sorry you are going through this. Your situation sounds not dissimilar to mine and reading the advice you are being given has been very helpful to me. Feel free to read through my "odyssey" if you have time. A history of increasing devaluation, disrespect and poor behaviour towards me from my WW. But I have lacked proof of my ultimate line being crossed.

What has helped me enormously in recent weeks and what may help you is to:

A) Take IC and work on your own longer term weaknesses and become strong by doing this. This has really helped me.

B) try and establish a framework for your W if you can in order to explain and predict (not justify) her behaviour. It may also help explain yours. Understanding attachment theory and personality disorders has really helped me predict and form a view on the fact that my W is not going to change and my attempts to use reasoning and logic is unlikely to get her to change. I have wasted two years trying. It has also helped me implement a 180 to further clarify my mind on what I need to do to get out of this current unsatisfactory situation.

C) Don’t confront on a serious matter if you are not prepared to act/assert your own boundaries. You simply weaken yourself as your W will know that you are not prepared to act so your threats are meaningless. You lose credibility and reveal your source and knowledge. Not much has changed in my own W’s behaviour despite numerous confirmations.

D) Consider what is more important. Finding the proof of a boundary crossing that is too much for you (and torturing yourself looking for it) or living in a relationship where your W does not respect you and you do not trust her regardless of whether a specific line has been crossed or not.. You will not be happy living in this situation So what will you do about it? This is exactly the issue that I am confronting myself. I have received amazing advice on this and have thus far been stubborn (and ignorant) in not following it until recently. But I am getting there.

E) Read the other relevant threads. It’s so much clearer when you read and form views on other situations. So learn from the many situations you read here, form your own thoughts and then map these on to your situation where relevant.

Double post in error. Apologies.

[This message edited by Olderandhappier at 11:22 PM, Sunday, October 20th]

Let us know when you find the hard concrete proof and you're definately leaving her. Definately.