SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

After DDay, I believed that my FWH had good intentions. I believed - and still believe - that he won't cheat again. I believe that he told/tells me the truth. I think his confession really helped with that belief, and I never experienced TT. It was like he finally found relief from the stress of deception and was so relieved to be in integrity with himself. He often says that he won't betray HIMSELF ever again, much less me.

To me, R with someone that you don't believe will tell you the truth or who you don't believe won't cheat on you again does not compute, but I see comments to that effect from folks who have been attempting R for a year or more. I don't get it. If you don't believe in them, and you aren't just sticking around for practical reasons, what are you doing? Why are you there?

Newbies, I get. You're still trying to keep your head above water and figure out who the heck your WS even is. But those who have been in R for a while, what gives?

Personally I struggle with why a BS would ever consider R, regardless of how truthful a WS is.

It's funny you use the word "believe". When the question of "Trust" comes up I always say "I believe my W", but will never have the 100% trust again. I do not expect her to ever cheat again, but I can't forget what she's capable of.

I think his confession really helped with that belief, and I never experienced TT. It was like he finally found relief from the stress of deception and was so relieved to be in integrity with himself. He often says that he won't betray HIMSELF ever again, much less me.

I think that a confession vs finding out can help build that trust. I think it’s great that he had the integrity to come forth the way he did.

I was found out. Exposed actually by my AP. My world as I knew it came crashing down and I went into survival mode. I felt I had to protect what little I had left. I was scared to death that each revelation would be the straw that broke the camel’s back. I didn’t want it to be "that bad". I wanted to save face to best of my ability and still try to be the person everyone thought I was. TT is was nearly killed my marriage. When I took a poly my husband posted that it was his hope to catch me in a truth vs a lie.

It took years for my husband to feel like he could trust me again. I actually would not be surprised if he checks on my location every now and then to this day. It doesn’t bother me because I have nothing to hide, but even after all this time I am sure there is a tug in the back of his every once in awhile.

It doesn’t change who we are or the success of our R. We are quite successfully R’d and happy. I don’t say that as an ignorant WS. I know it, we have talked about it.

Trust was shattered. It took years of work and consistent behavior for him to be able to trust again and like Tanner pointed out it will never be that 100%. I think that’s ok. Maybe 100% is too much.

We know what we experience. I’m so glad for you that TT wasn’t part of your process. Unfortunately I feel it’s more normal than not. They say that it takes 2-5 years to heal. It makes perfect sense that at 1-2 years trust is still very much an issue.

I have mixed feelings on this only because nothing is absolute.

I confessed on my own, no trickle truth. However, I did a lot of it for my own selfish reasons at the time. I often think everyone is capable of some degree of selfishness so it’s not super damning for me to state that IMO.

I told everything because I knew if he found out on his own or I didn’t tell the full truth there would be no chance we would stay married. Looking back, I wish it could have been more about not wanting to be that person anymore. Certainly that came in time, but my confession was calculated in keeping my options open, as if so had full control of the situation. No trickle truth but definitely some minimizing.

I caught my husband, he didn’t tell. I wouldn’t say there was trickle truth, but lots of minimizing.

I believe him probably as much as he believes me. I would go as far as to say the trust is built back as much as it ever will be. Maybe not 100, but it’s solid. While I don’t doubt a full confession and doing it on your own is a good start, there are a lot of things along the path that can make or break a reconciliation. I would compare it to taking the first right turn on a cross country trip. You can still arrive at your destination by making a wrong turn here or there. But if you make too many one of you may not want to make the full trip. I would say do what is right as often as you possibly can.

I think like any relationship it’s a reflection of your relationship with yourself. You have to love, honor, and respect yourself to give and receive that with another. The longer the ws is reactive rather than proactive the worse odds you have at reconciliation.

But that of course is only one half of the reconciliation picture. As the bs, You are still choosing to believe him. You probably have the confidence in yourself to know that if you are wrong you will move on and eventually be okay. So to get to the heart of your question, I think some bs never come to have that same confidence. They live in fear if they stay but the fear to leave is greater. It’s a reflection of the relationship you have with yourself.

I think like any relationship it’s a reflection of your relationship with yourself. You have to love, honor, and respect yourself to give and receive that with another.

Ooh, that's good. I think that's it. We were very, very lucky in that we were already seeing a terrific MC when DDay hit. We were already working on ourselves. Had we not had that new foundation, who knows what would have happened.

I want to clarify that it wasn't like my H confessed and then suddenly all was right with the world. He confessed and was still seeing the OW, but I asked him to either stop the A or move out. He moved out. About a month later, we began R and he went NC. In the interim, he was super foggy and didn't know what he wanted, but he still told me the truth about where his head was. I think once the truth was out, every lie was like a razor blade on the personal wound that he was trying to heal, so he told the truth. He didn't tell the truth for me, though I benefitted.

It's funny you use the word "believe". When the question of "Trust" comes up I always say "I believe my W", but will never have the 100% trust again. I do not expect her to ever cheat again, but I can't forget what she's capable of.

Tanner, your comment on Hellfire's forgiveness post was one of two that triggered me to write this. You said that you don't believe that your W won't do it again. The other was someone saying that they don't believe that their WS will ever tell them the truth, but they're essentially okay with it.

One thing that infidelity taught me is that I will never know someone else's mind or heart. I can believe in what I see, or believe what they tell me, but I will never, ever say that I know their true intentions. Ever.

Trust was shattered. It took years of work and consistent behavior for him to be able to trust again and like Tanner pointed out it will never be that 100%. I think that’s ok. Maybe 100% is too much.

I believe in "trust, but verify." I also told my H in the first year that I am choosing to extend trust to him, and that I will deal with broken trust when/if it happens. Because I could see that he needed to be truthful for himself, I completely understand that this process was easier for me than for most BSs.

WalkingonEggshelz, how long did the TT go on? Did your H stick with you through that for practical reasons, like financials or kids?

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 3:21 PM, Wednesday, November 15th]

I want to clarify that it wasn't like my H confessed and then suddenly all was right with the world. He confessed and was still seeing the OW, but I asked him to either stop the A or move out.

It’s funny, I read this and the story I tell myself is I would not have tolerated her continuing the A once I was aware of it. It might be true, or it might just be my mind looking to maintain a sense that something (anything!) is a hard line. For R to work, it seems to me that each and every one of us has to learn to tolerate something that looks intolerable, even to others who have walked the path.

For R to work, it seems to me that each and every one of us has to learn to tolerate something that looks intolerable, even to others who have walked the path.

I didn't tolerate it. There was less than 24 hours between his confession and my boundary where I asked him to end the A or move out. He moved out. He didn't come home until he agreed to end the A. The NC email was sent the next day. I didn't tolerate his A for one second.

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 4:33 PM, Wednesday, November 15th]

I didn't tolerate his A for one second.

I apologize if that hurt or offended you, no intent to at all. Can I substitute in the word "accept"? Obviously you didn’t want your husband to continue the A post discovery or be foggy and not completely choose you at that moment of discovery, but that did play out in the story, and in order to R you accepted that (please feel free to choose a different word if this one doesn’t work either). All I’m saying is that is a hurtful element that isn’t part of my story and in myself there is a temptation to think "that should be a deal breaker". I’m probably not being helpful on this thread, I’ll drop off.

So to get to the heart of your question, I think some bs never come to have that same confidence. They live in fear if they stay but the fear to leave is greater. It’s a reflection of the relationship you have with yourself.

So much this.

It's natural to focus on the WS at DDay and beyond for a long time but the betrayed's work is about this which in my mind is conquering THE FEAR. The only way I know how to do it (and it's a work in progress) is to or was to or to continue to rebuild myself. My worth, my goals, my dreams. All of it.

I don't want to live in fear. I don't want any relationship I'm in to be run by fear. I can't control any one else (spot on Sacred with your comments that we can NEVER know the mind of another) but I can live my life well and authentically. I can take care of myself.

I also can't give grace when I'm fearful and reconciliation requires grace.

I apologize if that hurt or offended you, no intent to at all. Can I substitute in the word "accept"? Obviously you didn’t want your husband to continue the A post discovery or be foggy and not completely choose you at that moment of discovery, but that did play out in the story, and in order to R you accepted that (please feel free to choose a different word if this one doesn’t work either).

I accepted that it had happened, but I did not accept ongoing betrayal. I refused to consider R while the A was still active. He moved out and I did not allow him to return until it was over and he had definitively declared that he loved me and wanted to be with me, that he would end contact immediately, and that we would resume work with the MC. And he did. I would not have accepted less.

Beautifully said, TheEnd. Hear! Hear!

You said that you don't believe that your W won't do it again.

I must have made a typo. I DON’T believe she will cheat again, but I cannot completely rule it either. My W hates infidelity and sees how devastating it is. I have seen her get very passionate speaking to friends at the top of the slippery slope, begging them not to do something they will hate the of their lives. But like you said I don’t truly know her heart.

All I’m saying is that is a hurtful element that isn’t part of my story and in myself there is a temptation to think "that should be a deal breaker".

I think most of us have done this. We see some particularly painful element (I call them "aggravating circumstances") in another person's story that we (fortunately) did not experience. Things like ILYs, finding out that the WS and the AP making fun of the BS, the WS introducing the AP to kids or family/friends, new/different sex acts that the WS had previously refused to do with the BS, plans to run away together, pregnancy scares or other children etc. etc. etc (I'm sure you can think of some of your own). We hear those stories and we think to ourselves, well THAT would have been a dealbreaker for me. THAT would be unforgiveable. But.....like infidelity itself, until we have actually been through it we don't know for sure. I promise you, pre-dday, I would have been 100% certain that an affair would be a dealbreaker for me and the end of my marriage. And I mean, here I am. I suppose it WAS/IS a dealbreaker and the end of that marriage, but I obviously managed to get past it and am happy in reconciled in spite of all of it.

I find myself reminding myself of that often.

All I’m saying is that is a hurtful element that isn’t part of my story and in myself there is a temptation to think "that should be a deal breaker".

I completely missed this, which means I really missed the whole point of InkHulk's comments. Oy vey. IH, I welcome your participation.

Since DDay, the mantra is "You never know what you'll do until you're the one wearing the shoes." And here we are again. lol

I am not sure if I am "one of those" BSes who is tolerating dishonesty. The offense was 8 years ago, AP was fired within 3 months of me complaining they were too friendly. He held the secret for 7 years then confessed a bit over a year ago. There is one smallish thing I think he may still be lying about. In addition to kissing in the office there were 3 visits to parks. I think there may have been a 4th. It is a spot that he knows would particularly piss me off. It may be I am just suspicious because he lied for 7 years.

As far as thinking he would cheat I believe 100% that he would never do that again.

My upset over his lying is mitigated somewhat by the fact that in the 30 years we have been together has never lied about anything unrelated to this affair. What drove the lying: fear of my reaction, the fact that we were being retraumatized by the OW, she came back 3 years after the firing and rejoined his company through a sub-division and he had to go in front of his board to get her fired again (by reminding everyone of his "inappropriate" relationship and the fact that she had received severance in exchange for a promise to leave permanently, basically the board agreed she shouldn’t have been allowed back and ended up firing her again, so she was fired twice for the same "sin" if you will), he feared being sued. His only defense was she kissed him first.

None of that justifies his lying. He did it. He is remorseful. He is in IC and MC to improve his behavior and stop being so avoidant. He is well aware it is all his fault. There is no blame shifting. He is working on his shame issues. He is a different person than he was 8 years ago and even 14 months ago.

As far as whether he is holding back this one thing. Not sure. I asked this question in the I Can Relate question thread and several WSes, including BSR, said there is always some little thing held back. That’s sad. But at this point I don’t want to give up 30 years of marriage over three months of stupidity for which he is fully remorseful.

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 4:13 AM, Thursday, November 16th]

how long did the TT go on? Did your H stick with you through that for practical reasons, like financials or kids?

TT lasted for 3-4 months. DDay was July 24, by October he wanted a divorce and I wrote a very detailed timeline. I took a poly in November. It was the poly that gave me a small foundation to begin building more trust. Things were pretty ugly that first year. We both had the support of SI through those times. As terrible as it sounds, I imagine it would have been a lot worse if I didn’t have my peers calling me out along the way.

He mostly stayed because he loved me, but some days he needed things like the kids and finances too because loving me wasn’t enough.

Complete trust is hard for me because she TT me for 2 months after Dday. She would have never confessed, I found it out, and it was like pulling teeth to get to the truth. She went NC on Dday but I found a message to her friend (the affair cheerleader) saying she was playing nice in R while she arranged her exit strategy. It was a false R by her own admission. It wasn't until I was headed for D that she came clean and wrote the timeline. My W has been very solid ever since, I believe her, and know she is happy in this M. She is horrified by what she did and I can't imagine she would do it again, but I will never say never.

Add me in to the never fully believe again and I divorced the WS well over a decade and a half ago. Currently married to someone else. I define it as believing more likely not to cheat than to cheat or the relationship wouldn't work for me. I don't think I'll ever swear that it won't happen again. That was naive of me in my first marriage and allowed me to miss or ignore way too many red flags. I do believe in myself to deal with it if it does happen again.

I don't think I'll ever swear that it won't happen again. That was naive of me in my first marriage and allowed me to miss or ignore way too many red flags.

This exactly, even if I had D my W, I would never rule it out with anyone. The only thing I trust 100% moving forward is my gut.