SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Well this thread is unusual.

You have a WW who cheated twice, lied about it for years, including being in love with the OMs and all she gets is custody advice and an explanation why the BH is an horrible person. The BH should just get over it because some poster had sex when she was young... a BJ is not important, an EA is not important, lying for a number of years is not important and it happened a long time ago, so who cares?

I agree with you 100% I have read and read a lot of threads on SI. I do believe this is the first time I have seen a WW (ME) defending BS. I do honesty regret saying anything about my custody agreement with BH. I feel that if I had kept that information to myself I would have gotten better advice for my marriage. I do start my first IC session ever this week. And in all honesty I should have probably gone to IC many many years ago. Over the past few months I have learned alot that I was emotionally abused as a child but I thought that was a "normal" childhood. Also since becoming a Mother 6 years ago I started to realize a lot of shit I went through as a kid was not right. But all that will be addressed in IC.

I want to be a safe person and I'm working very hard to show I'm working to become that safe perosn. I know it won't be over night. I have an uphill battle ahead of me. But I WANT to fight for my family and my BH.

I'm not using my children as PAWNS please do not accuse me of this. They are the most important things in my life and I do trust my BH will not take them away. He knows I'm a good mother that is not in question. My actions of PA/EA were done BEFORE I became a mother and since I did take my marriage vows I have been nothing but faithful. But that doesn't mean the sins I commented before I took my vows are dissolved. My BH wasn't fully informed of my sins prior to our marriage.

Also can someone explain to me the difference between being exclusive and official? It sure sounds like 15 is minimizing her actions. Any other WS would be flamed for that.

I'm not trying to minimize my actions. I feel that I'm spending more time defending my BS than learning how to help him. As far as exclusive vs offical ... BH has expressed he wanted us to be only having sex with each other and he really didn't care that I hung out with other guys just not have SEX with them and I agreed I wouldn't have sex with anyone but him. Even though I agreed to only have sex with him... I didn't follow through. And OFFICIAL ... that was then he started calling me his Girlfriend and he told me he loved me.

IF you got back and look at my past posts... I lied and said I told him everything a while back. But I didn't ... It wasn't until last week that he know of everything. I feel that my BH is getting a bad wrap for being lied to and being hurt by ME.

But I don't think it's fair to say this man didn't love you. He may be lashing out, and trying to hurt you as much as you hurt him. That's wrong, but he's been given yet another dday, and it's understandable he wants to hurt you.

I have never doubt his love for me. And it is understable he wanted to hurt me and we did have a day where he did say some terrible things to me. Since that day we have addressed his behavior towards me and he hasn't said anything in that manner since.

Has he gone to an attorney and filed for full custody?

No, we have an appointment with an attorney together next month.

Saying a BJ ended the marriage is unfair. The lies did that. He's been given,at minimum, 4 ddays. Lied to for 16 years,and told over and over he finally has the entire truth,only to have the rug ripped from under him. It's cruel. That ended the marriage. If I were to find out my husband went down on a woman, when we were exclusive, and I had been asking him about it, for 16 years, and he lied to me, then went on to given me 3 more ddays, it would be the straw that broke the camels back. A person shouldn't have to put up with that much abuse.

Yes, the BJ didn't end the marriage. My lies and false timeline is what killed my marriage. My actions were cruel and I'm trying to address them and seek help to help my BH.

But I'm going down a path of honesty and I'm seeking IC to better myself. I have a lot of work to do on myself, from the lies to the self esteem issues.

It's good that you're attempting to stop the lying but don't sell yourself as a beacon of honesty to him right now. He won't see it as believable because it's what you said while you were still lying. Don't try to sell yourself as someone who's radically changed. It was only days ago that you were still acting like the woman who cheated on him. It's better to listen more, talk less, and if you don't know what to say, another apology couldn't hurt unless he tells you to stop.

Do your best to write the timeline. Include what you were thinking and feeling during it. You can probably remember some of that if you try. Go over it multiple times in your head. You may be surprised by what you remember if you try. Use your journals as a guide if you can. When you're done, it could be helpful to tell him that you would be willing to take a polygraph to prove that you did your best and that the timeline is accurate as far as what you can remember.

You know, you don’t have to remain married to this guy. He kind of sounds douchy.

Really!! This is a uncalled for!! Calling my BH "douchy" because he is HURT?? Really has this happened before on SI???

Has he EVER hit you? Direct question, please answer directly

NO!!! NEVER!!!!

[This message edited by 15yrsinthemaking at 11:55 PM, April 25th (Sunday)]

It's good that you're attempting to stop the lying but don't sell yourself as a beacon of honesty to him right now. He won't see it as believable because it's what you said while you were still lying. Don't try to sell yourself as someone who's radically changed. It was only days ago that you were still acting like the woman who cheated on him. It's better to listen more, talk less, and if you don't know what to say, another apology couldn't hurt unless he tells you to stop.

Thank you, I have started to show with my actions. If I say I'm going to do it I do it. I know my actions are the only thing he can trust because they are what are seen. I do listen to him and I'm learning how to do it better.

Do your best to write the timeline. Include what you were thinking and feeling during it. You can probably remember some of that if you try. Go over it multiple times in your head. You may be surprised by what you remember if you try. Use your journals as a guide if you can. When you're done, it could be helpful to tell him that you would be willing to take a polygraph to prove that you did your best and that the timeline is accurate as far as what you can remember.

This has been done. And BH has found a polygraph place he wants me to go to. And I will go take the poly.

Can I ask everyone that's posted so far please read Bigger's thread in General: Fantasy versus reality

I read this ... Do you think I'm faking my post? I do think my BS has been given a bad wrap on this thread.

15,

You know yourself and your husband best. Did you cheat more than once (PA & the EA)? Did you lie about it afterwards (for over a decade)? Is your husband truly in pain? Let's help 15 the best we can with the info we have. Not with what our funny bone might be telling us (if more is shared, we will absolutely be here to help).

Yes I did lie about my one PA and one EA. Yes I lied over a decade. Yes my BH is truly in pain ... That I caused.

[This message edited by 15yrsinthemaking at 12:28 AM, April 26th (Monday)]

Well 15yrs, I'm going to bow out of your thread because I just really can't agree that you deserve the treatment you're receiving from your husband. I just don't see your recent clarifications as huge reveals requiring damnation. There's nothing really new there. He knew about the sex. He knew about the EA. And he married you anyway. Big deal if he didn't know about the blow job. What does he think goes on when people have a sexual relationship??? And you had "feelings" during your EA? THAT's how you know it wasn't a simple friendship, right? ..."emotional affair". The E is for Emotional...meaning feelings are involved. So, no surprise there either.

Anyway, the fact that he would tell you that it's "wayward behavior" for you to walk back such a desperate offer as to give up custody of your children is not rational in my book. It makes me not like him at all. Further, you sound so desperate to defend him that I have to wonder if he's reading along. I wouldn't want my presence on your thread to cause anymore drama than you're already dealing with because Lord knows you've got enough on your plate. So... I wish you all the luck in the world and hope you find some hope and healing for yourself. You do deserve it.

((hugs))

I do honesty regret saying anything about my custody agreement with BH.

You could ask the mods to put a stop sign on your thread so only the waywards post here. They have walked your path and can help you.

ETA: when you meet an attorney next month, you will find out that in a D, your stuff is divided about half and half, and a judge rules about custody based on what’s best for the children. So a lot of discussion on this thread is moot.

I think that right now, you’re in reactive mode. It’s like weighting yourself in the morning and saying OMG I’m going on a diet! This is a marathon not a sprint. Long term change is not easy. Five years from now, when an old BF contacts you on FB, you will need to have your boundaries well set. Because, if you’re still married, your BH doesn’t want to be a parole officer.

You help your BH by becoming a better person.

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 4:50 AM, April 26th (Monday)]

Chamomile,

I do truly appreciate your point of view. You have given me a lot of food for thought. I will "mother" myself and care for my inner child. I don't believe you have caused me more stress.

And I do defend my BH because I truly understand his pain. I see it on his face. Maybe I'm to quick to run to his defense but I'm a woman in love with a hurt man...hurt by my own actions.

Shutter,

I kept the stop sign off because I do want to hear from BS. I feel I've tried to protect my own feelings for far too long. I need to hear it all including the "2x4" throwing.

I just feel that by saying something about the custody the thread went down a path I wasn't expecting. And it has truly surprised me by some of the responses. I do appreciate everyone's thoughts and that you took your time to give me some advice. It's humbling to experience so much giving from the internet.

15, I added to my post but you were too quick to reply :)

Sometimes SI goes on a tangent and it’s hard to get it back on track unless a moderator post something; that usually works well.

I hope you’ll find the help you need

[This message edited by ShutterHappy at 5:07 AM, April 26th (Monday)]

15yrs, is your husband reading all of this?

I do not think you are making this all up. I could have explained better. Sorry.

The Fantasy vs Reality suggestion was multifaceted. I wanted to show you that collectively SI agrees you cannot and should not over punish a WS. Taking parental rights away is considered above and beyond. It's not advice given based on reality. So if your husband is listening to that kind of advice, that's not good. Hopefully he will come to his senses.

This part isn't directed to you 15. It was also supposed to be a reminder that we (SI) shouldn't create fantasy scenarios. Just because some members here cannot understand your husbands pain, doesn't mean its not valid. So to me, completely ignoring him as a BS because it doesn't fit any one members idea of betrayal seems rather narrow minded and possibly harmful.

Also for members here to minimize your actions, and minimize his feelings of betrayal as a way to prove your right as a parent baffles me. You are a mom. You shouldn't give up custody. He is a BS he can feel betrayed! Both of those things can be true at the same time. To me, they shouldn't be linked at all.

Back to you 15,

I think taking the polygraph is a good thing. That fact that he's even considering it suggested he's not committed to divorce yet. Hopefully you have given him all the info, and it will be a step in regaining some level of trust.

I was asking about the difference between Official and Exclusive because many times WS's (including myself) would minimize our actions so it doesn't sound as bad. If something isn't "as bad", it's easier to justify. Justifying hurts you and your BS. Without full accountability, it's more or less impossible to move forward. If Official and Exclusive are terms your husband uses and agrees with your explanation, then it may not matter.

[This message edited by Neanderthal at 10:21 AM, April 26th (Monday)]

Land,

No, not to the best of my knowledge. This is all me.

Neanderthal

I was asking about the difference between Official and Exclusive because many times WS's (including myself) would minimize our actions so it doesn't sound as bad. If something isn't "as bad", it's easier to justify. Justifying hurts you and your BS. Without full accountability, it's more or less impossible to move forward. If Official and Exclusive are terms your husband uses and agrees with your explanation, then it may not matter.

I totally understand your point but H and I are on the same page when official vs exclusive and I did step out during both stages of our relationship. And everything in me does want to try to minimize my terrible actions but I know that is not the way to be a safe person.

And part of me feels BH isn't completly done with me and our marriage. But I need to become a safe person. I know he doesn't feel safe with me even if he wants to him brain won't let him .... Yet I hope.

And thank you for clarifying your previous post.

[This message edited by 15yrsinthemaking at 10:53 AM, April 26th (Monday)]

Hey 15,

What a ride eh? Tangential issues raised and nit-picked to death, and little to answer your initial request, which is to help you deal with what you are going through now.

Well, to me, it looks like you have started on the correct foot in that you are going to IC, giving your BS full honesty (BJ & feelings for OM), and your actions show that you have remorse (custody issue).

You have already let go of the outcome of what happens to the M, which is in a way, a good thing. It indicates that you are not trying to manipulate the outcome anymore.

Is it correct to offer your BH full custody? IMO, no, at least not for the long-term, but I understand where that offer came from.

Correct me if I am wrong, but your thinking was that by offering full custody to your BH, you intended to show that you are now making yourself incredibly vulnerable to him, and that you are at his mercy.

With the BJ confession, it was giving your BH the unadulterated truth. To validate to him that his gut was right in that there was more.

The act itself was not the issue, but the giving up of that last nugget of truth was to give him the 'full truth'.

We can be pedantic and argue about specifics, but I see that you have done what BS would be looking for, in that you are now 'letting go' of controlling the outcome, and exhibiting true remorse.

As with anyone who has gone through life-changing experiences, one can sometimes over-compensate, and that seems to be what you have done/are doing.

Self-flagellating to the extent that you are doing, is over-doing it, but that is normal. We all tend to over-compensate when we are truly sorry for for something that we have done.

Is this the right behaviour? A definite NO for the long term.

If you continue with this self-flagellation for the long-term, you will not only destroy yourself, but it will affect your children's perception of you. You need to work on your mental health for the long term, and your kids need you.

Whether your relationship with your BH survives, or morphs into something else, you will need to focus on being healthy for your children. To guide them is their lives in a healthy manner. They will be depending on you to help them establish a healthy outlook in life; to have good boundaries, morals, and integrity.

You may ask, 'how can I, a cheater, liar, teach my kids about boundaries, morals, and integrity?'

Well, that will depend on whether you have learned from this tale of destruction. It will depend if you can pull yourself out of this shame spiral, and correct the toxic thoughts/behaviours.

So, first things first, get yourself into IC. You need it, your BH needs it, your children (especially) need it.

This journey is not for yourself, but for your children. Do not fall into selfish behaviour and thinking like you did in your A (I don't care about the pre-frontal cortex stuff as an excuse for bad behaviour) and take an easy way out.

I was thinking along the same lines as the above poster. When newly minted BHs show up in JFO, one often reads about a WW that is desperate to make things right. Is that you case?

The problem is, in my opinion, that desperate actions are short term fixes. A BH doesn’t need that. A BH needs a WW that has good boundaries and doesn’t seek validation from other men. A change for life, not a short term solutions.

When the next guy comes along and flirts with you, you can be flattered (we are humans), but then have the self confidence to think... I don’t need this.

I understand that it looks bad to everyone that I "offered" my kids as a bargaining tool. But I did not!! I'm not giving my kids up. Bh will not keep them from me.

I'm showing my BH I truly can be vulnerable with him. He doesn't see it as me trying to run away from the fall out of my infidelities.

other info I feel is important:

I was rereading everything and I did not include information about the night BH found out about my EA. The night BH found out about my EA, he and I did have sex and I did give him a BJ that night. That night I was riding high on adrenaline about what I had posted. I did tell BH I was thinking about EA while we had sex ... But in all honesty I do not remember giving BH a bj that night. It was almost 7 years ago now. Just seeing myself write that out makes me sick to my stomach

I'm trying to be open and clean with everything with you all. I do feel that this thread has a Twilight Zone feel.

@rocket thank your for you wise words. I do have a lot of work to do on myself. I have been doing a lot of forgiving from my past. Lost of pain and anger I have held on to not associated with BH but FOO. And I do start IC this week. I'm not trying to do this alone. My alone thinking is why I'm here.

@anyone who is trying to blame my BH I'm very surprised and honestly hurt. Yes I have and will defend my BH. No, he isn't reading my posts he didn't ask me to come here and seek advice and guidance. I'm here because I want to do the best for myself my kids and my BH.

I'm showing my BH I truly can be vulnerable with him. He doesn't see it as me trying to run away from the fall out of my infidelities.

This is a major point here, and do not underestimate the power of healing it can bring, to you, your BH, and your kids. Owning up is a big step for all WS.

The night BH found out about my EA, he and I did have sex and I did give him a BJ that night. That night I was riding high on adrenaline about what I had posted. I did tell BH I was thinking about EA while we had sex ...

... and do you now see how your latest confession triggered him? BJs are willingly and enthusiastically performed for your APs, but not for your BH. To him, he only gets the remnants of what your APs got, unadulterated passion and lust. The fact that his wife invested more into her APs than him, will haunt him for a long time. This is over and above the damage done by the TT.

I'm not trying to do this alone. My alone thinking is why I'm here.

Self-awareness, a great indication that you have hope in getting healed. There is a 'but' though, it will depend on what you do with this self-awareness that will dictate your path for the rest of your life.

Like I posted earlier, you have been taking the correct steps so far, and hopefully you can continue to do so. Please remember that you do this not only for yourself, but for those you love, and for those who are around you.

... and do you now see how your latest confession triggered him? BJs are willingly and enthusiastically performed for your APs, but not for your BH. To him, he only gets the remnants of what your APs got, unadulterated passion and lust. The fact that his wife invested more into her APs than him, will haunt him for a long time. This is over and above the damage done by the TT.

Yes and yes. My TT had done the most damage. I'm trying not to come off as desperate but I think that's all I'm doing. I truly appreciate your wise words.

I feel like I'm barley keep my head above water while I see my BH drowning in the pain I have caused.