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I’m only a couple of weeks into the start of separation and have a long way to go. But from my new slightly changed vantage point I realised something last night

Both WGF and I are finally being honest with each other. Not with respect to what she did, she’ll take many of those details to the grave with her and only 2 people will ever know what really happened.

No what I mean is that we’re both being honest about what we wanted all along and that is the “old relationship” with a few benefits of infidelity bolted on such as HB and date nights etc. Neither of us was really ever prepared to accept the long term consequences of her affair, the lost trust (in both directions) the “different kind of love” etc

It took us a while to get here, 15 months but we are being honest with each other that what we want we can’t have and therefore let’s change direction and separate.

She doesn’t like the consequences of S much either but she seems much more prepared to accept these than she was the consequences and work required for R so I think it’s for the best.

It’s kind of freeing, coming to this realisation, sad but freeing. I no longer need details, my concerns and anxieties have changed from one thing (her affair) to another (finances and the children) and these anxieties are easier to absorb and deal with.

I’m not naive and I’m sure there are some obstacles ahead of me but I’ve found a little bit of peace to collect myself, the eye of the storm maybe?

What is interesting though, is that in talking about S it is very clear that even during the A she had absolutely no plans on what she wanted, she has no fixed ideas on where she wants to live, what her life looks like post S, no real ideas on coparenting etc. I’d always thought this was an exit A but i’m now starting to believe this was an MLC / cake eating A.

TD

[This message edited by TwoDozen at 5:02 AM, April 1st (Thursday)]

[This message edited by TwoDozen at 11:02 AM, Thursday, April 1st]

TD - it almost feels to me that you both want to stay together but are playing a game of chicken- who will relent first.

What I’m still unclear about is why your WGF doesn’t want to/feel the need to provide you with the details about the affair that you require. You mentioned that she said she said she felt old, unhappy, etc. but that wasn’t the answers you are looking for.

If R was still on the table, what exactly do you need from WGF, and what are her reasons for not providing it? Does she still want to remain a couple with you but simply rugsweep the A?

If R was still on the table, what exactly do you need from WGF, and what are her reasons for not providing it? Does she still want to remain a couple with you but simply rugsweep the A?

Answering for TD, his WGF still works with AP for one. She won't quit unless TD takes S off the table which he can't honestly do. Add to this a TD quote from another post.

All while this has been happening WGF cannot stop the blameshifting and minimising because the alternative to that is just far too painful for her to take. She wants to R desperately but just cannot do the fundamental work required to make that possible. She wants to take only the potential good and not suffer any of the consequences of her choices. Which I have surmised / concluded leaves those for me to live with.

So basically his WGF is unwilling or able to truly commit to doing the work for a true R and he can't do so without her.

TD, the A was never about your relationship. I'm not sure you ever mentioned enough detail, but for sure this seems like a MLC and she used the A for affirmations. Her FOO obviously led her to have very weak boundaries on As and her FOO also led her to believe that As are something from which you can recover. IOW a low risk fling. It's a shame that she had to find out the hard way that that's not always the case. I'm sure if she was certain of the end result, her boundaries would have been stronger.

The above is accurate, thanks Grubs

Slight correction though, me taking S off the table would not ensure WGF would leave the job. She just doesn’t think she needs to do these things or suffer these consequences for R full stop. She does not see herself in the same light as other cheaters, for reasons that I don’t really know. It’s not just NC though, I don’t have details, I don’t have a timeline, she just doesn’t want to acknowledge it happened and sadly S means that we just stop talking about it so right now that is maybe the easy option for her.

You mentioned “fling” and this is the exact same word she used a few days after dday when I first referred to her A as an Affair, she retorted with its not an affair it was “just a fling”

Are we both playing chicken? It’s entirely possible, but 25 years of living with WGF has taught me that she doesn’t back down (I always did) I knew this all the way through R. I didn’t chose to move to S as a manipulation tactic I chose it because I eventually realised I could not heal while contact with AP was not established.

I wrote my 1st letter to WGF about how not having NC with AP was tearing me apart 1 year before we agreed to separate. I banged that drum for 1 year....

@dude my needs were clearly communicated

1. NC

2. Find out why / how was you able to give yourself permission to betray me

3. Work on reasons for 2 above

4. Honesty past / present / future

This as far as I can tell is a very minimal list of needs and doesn’t include many of the things that other BS would ask for, but it was my list and it was all I needed. She could not deliver any of them.

1. She shouldn’t need to do that if TD really loved her, it’s controlling

2. She was unhappy because TD didn’t realise she had changed and now needed kibbles that she had always disliked in the past.

3. She isn’t unhappy anymore because TD now gives her kibbles

4. Doesn’t like the effects of TT so rather than just tell everything just stopped giving anymore details whatsoever.

But, and the point of this thread was the realisation that outside of my needs there are some fundamental changes to a relationship that the laws of nature decree regarding “blind trust” and “ a different kind of love” post A that she was also unwilling to accept.

She has realised over the last couple of months that whilst her family all appeared to have survived their As that all of them carry resentment towards each other and she doesn’t want to live that life.

So the consequences of S are more palatable than the consequences of R

TD

She has realised over the last couple of months that whilst her family all appeared to have survived their As that all of them carry resentment towards each other and she doesn’t want to live that life.

If only she had been that introspective pre A...

@grubs if only !!

It's like staring into an alternate reality. I know what you mean about the new level of honesty and openness.

It's unfortunate that S is the correct path, but it is only with this honest and open assessment you can finalize this decision.

TD - I’m not recommending an RA - I know that I would get flamed for this. However, yesterday I read Buzzy’s story just by chance. His wife seemed to have a similar MO as your girlfriend. Buzzy’s personality was similar to Westway, space ghost, and waitedwaytoolong. Buzzy wanted to R but couldn’t get past the A’s assault on his dignity, manhood, etc. After his RA 5 weeks later, he was able to reconcile with his wife, as the relationship was put back into balance in his eyes.

So again, I’m not recommending an RA, and it doesn’t appear to me that you share the same personality traits as the other BH’s I mentioned. However, how do you think your WGF would react if you asked her how she would feel if you had your chance at a fling now? Not as a question as to help her understand your pain, but as a means to rebalance the relationship in hope of R. Or, just because you want to. You’re already doing the 180, and you’re already separated. Just like she won’t quit her job under her current demands because you’re offering “no guarantees”, you are also not offering any guarantees, but who knows. You are not married and are separated. WWTL separated from his WW and proceeded to have fun to help him overcome his sense of injustice and imbalance his WW caused with her A. It didn’t solve his issue, but wrt Buzzy it solved his issue and they reconciled.

I realize that this is SI heresy to propose this, but the only reason I mention it is that your WGF minimized her A as a fling. Is this a topic you can broach -your own fling to rebalance the relationship in hopes of R? Or, have your fling on your own terms but simply inform her of your intentions (Buzzy’s method). The final reason I will mention is that you both want to R, have tried everything so far, all of which have failed. My suggestion is only recommended as a last ditch effort.

It’s always talked about that the WW in many cases needs that final shock to pulled their head out of their ass. Now please fire away at my terrible recommendation. And why would I mention an action so heretical? Because SI is a place where we throw everything against the wall and see what sticks.

I've written about the misguidedness of an RA, or the hallpass to equalize concept a few times. To me, it's almost like slashing your driver's side front tire because the passenger side blew out instead of fixing what's wrong. Now you have two tires to replace. Sure the work is more symmetrical, but I think there is now more to do.

At least the car isn't pulling to the right anymore I guess...

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

I hear you and realize this would be the most likely response. The reason I’m not classifying it as an RA is TD’s WGF is not classifying her A as an A - she’s minimizing by calling it a fling.

In this case, the wording and its related association might truly matter. Is an RA the same as a fling?

Like I said earlier, if it’s a last ditch effort what is the harm in discussing it with the WGF? No action needs to be taken aside from the conversation. If it pulls her head out of her ass isn’t a conversation potentially worthwhile? Might the conversation lead to more in depth conversations on the A itself and it’s meaning? Is this so heretical that it’s not worth trying? If it works, a relationship is saved. If it doesn’t, no harm has been done. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

@Dude67,

I think you missed the reason TD is separating. His WGF could not provide him with what he needed to heal from the A. She is still minimizing and refusing to disclose details. She is still in contact with AP and doesn't plan to change this. She is an unsafe partner. How could you possibly think an RA could work to fix these issues?

For the record, I am not completely against the HP. I am not for the RA since it makes you just as bad as the cheater, whereas HP is not technically cheating since it's literally a 'pass'. Anyway, HP should only ever be considered if WS is doing everything right, but BS can't seem to get past the unfairness and mind movies. And even then, most BSs would never do it since it's likely against their morals and might make them feel even worse.

TD - I’m not recommending an RA - I know that I would get flamed for this. However, yesterday I read Buzzy’s story just by chance. His wife seemed to have a similar MO as your girlfriend. Buzzy’s personality was similar to Westway, space ghost, and waitedwaytoolong. Buzzy wanted to R but couldn’t get past the A’s assault on his dignity, manhood, etc. After his RA 5 weeks later, he was able to reconcile with his wife, as the relationship was put back into balance in his eyes.

Just an fyi - Buzzy was outed as a troll

The interesting thing I took from the OP is the part about finally being honest. It just occurred to me I'm going through the same thing with my STBXW, we're finally being honest with each other. I wonder if this is a common thing post A. The frustrating thing, and I told the W this, is that had we been this honest before the A we probably could have saved the marriage and avoided the A in the first place!

I think I'm growing from my own D in learning a lesson...if you don't have full honesty in a relationship unless it's about to end, then it was doomed anyways. The hard part is figuring that out in the middle.