SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Hi Laura, I appreciate you checking in and understand the struggle. I am not as far out as you are, but the six years I have worked to uncover the the truth of my M feel like a lifetime. I have been trying to make sense of my life and our lives looking back to 2008, and still wonder how I could have ever been so naïve, trusting or blind to the obvious. I gave my WH so much grace and leeway and always made excuses for him, and now I see my role in enabling this mess to unfold in such a terrible way. I am trying to be a better version of myself, but this time it is for me, not for him or for us. I could be perfect but that can't fix what is broken in him, the parts that let him break me.

I talked with my IC last session about how I finally feel like I am reaching something that looks like acceptance, but it feels like ambivalence. How do I stay connected or in love with someone I feel ambivalent about and will I eventually outgrow him or fall out of love with him as I continue to grow and he does not.... So many questions and so few answers.

My WH is being kind, loving, attentive and very present in daily life. We do more together now than we ever did, but the physical proximity is not providing me the emotional or intimate connection I had hoped to regain in R. I am struggling with this next chapter of moving on, but I can at least see personal progress in huge and small ways in myself. I don't have panic attacks anymore, I am not crying for hours at at time anymore, and have barely cried in months now. I don't have fear for my future, or a desperate need for my WH to make me feel safe or loved. All of this is good, and in the nick of time, because I was truly worn down from the struggle to move forward with a spouse who can't give me what I need. The irony I see in our M now is that I am where he was when he started his A, frustrated with unmet needs, unable to talk about them, unable to find solutions to make us both happy... the difference is I won't act out in foolish or hurtful ways. I just state my case, and go on with my day and try to find a groove where things feel manageable.

Right now, he is in a very loving place and I am not. I am comfortable in the friendship and partnership aspects of our M, but I am not feeling reciprocal to him right now. I am being as honest as I can be, and he is being as understanding as he is able. He may be a little hurt, but I am committed to my radical honesty program and won't sugar coat how I am feeling. He has asked me to get help "getting over" this for years, and I don't think he really thought through what getting over this entails. I have had to face some really hard truths about myself in this round of IC, and some hard truths about him and our M. I am still processing and growing, but I feel like I am finally turning a corner in my recovery from the damage and the trauma. I don't know how to come out intact and still romanticize anything about our relationship. I appreciate a lot of things about us, and where we are now, what we have built together, but I don't have any illusions about true love or soul mates or fate... we are just two people who are trying to keep having a life together worth living. It's an emptier and scarier story than the fairy tale I used to believe and I miss believing in that story. My story now is learning to believe in myself and letting go of the rest.

I feel a little defensive sometimes when questioned why I stay or why I still check up on his digital life, and the root of that may be due to some self judgement, or regrets about how I dealt with him in the early phases of discovery. I am learning how to let go of the emotions at the root of that defensiveness and trying to let go of needing to explain myself. I'm here because I'm choosing to be here, and I do what I do because for now, this is what I need to do. I am working really hard not to judge myself harshly. I keep coming back to SI looking for answers, understanding, advice, or just to offer support and advice to others. But I also see that I really don't have any answers, just warnings to the newly heartbroken to stop trusting or hoping in the face of deception. I can only tell my story moving forward, and each of ours is unique.

My IC has helped me see how to cut through so much emotional baggage and advocate for myself and the life I deserve. She's really cheering for me, although she has never had a client salvage a M after so many years of cheating and lying, complete with the gaslighting, DARVO and underground A during recommitment and rebuilding, and a spouse incapable of doing the work to heal. She's helping me see the beauty in choosing to do the hard thing, to try and salvage the life I've spent decades building with this man. Her recommendation to me was to be careful spending too much time here online, due to the pain triggers and the potential to stay stuck in a sad mindset. She's not wrong.

I keep coming back anyway, if only to say I hear you, me too and offer hope for a better future for us all. Thank you for popping back in, I hope it was helpful to be heard, and I hope you check in again someday with updates. Also, I hear you about your daughter. I look very differently at my grown kids significant others now, and feel like you do, very protective and I'd do anything to spare them this pain.

Love to you too.

[This message edited by whatisloveanyway at 3:40 PM, Wednesday, May 8th]

Never blame yourself. The fault does not lie with the BS, it lies with the WS. You trusted - which is what married people are supposed to do. Trust is when you believe someone will act/be a certain way, when they have the same boundaries as you, when you can count on them having your back. Your WS betrayed that trust – took it for granted and used it against you. That is THEIR fault and not yours for giving it in the first place.

This is perfectly worded and each BS should tattoo that on their chest!

[This message edited by Fantastic at 2:40 PM, Wednesday, May 8th]

whatisloveanyway

You sound like you are making great progress towards the life you deserve.

However:
I don't know how to come out intact and still romanticize anything about our relationship

will I eventually outgrow him or fall out of love with him as I continue to grow and he does not

I suspect that in most healthy marriages the "romance" evolves into affectionate partnership. I would happily settle for that.

My F?WH says and does all the romantic stuff but he did that the entire time he was involved in his LTAs. He thinks it will "fix" things. It is not what I need or want now. For me it is utterly meaningless. Sadly (for us both) he continues to lie and hide things from me. It is who he is and the ingrained habits from years of deception I believe are an integral part of who he has become. He assures me that I am wrong but I keep seeing evidence of it. So the romantic stuff just feels like more deceit.

In my case, I actually doubt he is having affairs again. His opportunities are limited and there are no red flags that I can see. But it doesn't matter.

Each day I do what I want to do. He is considerate and kind. He tries to be affectionate. I don't reject this but I don't reciprocate. I am polite and helpful. Consult him about things. But not affectionate. I don't bring up his LTAs unless he triggers me. Sometimes he slips back into old habits - makes snide remarks, is critical or nasty about something small or tries to bully me over little things. For years he did this and I fell into the habit of trying to placate him, even to the point of admitting fault when there was none or apologising when I had done nothing wrong. He was a master manipulator and I now know I was an abused wife. Hard to imagine but I was desperate for our marriage to work. On the rare occasions when he slips back into old habits, instead of crumbling I become a raging monster and he immediately apologises and backs off.

Yes, I have changed. He can't manipulate me. I also know that if I become too dissatisfied with where we are I will be done. Apart from all the inconveniences of divorce (moving, finances etc) and heart ache for the children, I could walk away easily.

In my worst moments, I wonder what I would do/think/feel if he became seriously ill or died. (He turned 70 a couple of weeks ago). I think I would struggle to FEEL much.

I also often wonder if I made the right decision 14 years ago - staying. Life would be easier in some ways but harder in others.
Even though it has been so horrible at times and I realise that I never had a real husband, most days I don't think it was a mistake. It was what I needed to do at the time and I am relatively OK. I think the quiet anger, sadness and occasional boiling rage I feel would still be part of my life. I know I could never trust anyone again so another partner would not be an option. My life would not be a great deal different from now except there would be no one to make me cups of tea!

It's an emptier and scarier story than the fairy tale I used to believe and I miss believing in that story

Yes. I think we all hoped for/believed in that but they let us down. I suppose that's what makes us so sad.

I'm here because I'm choosing to be here, and I do what I do because for now, this is what I need to do.

Me too!! And that's OK. We are not accountable to anyone. It's OK to do what we need to do. Those on the outside don't get it. We didn't until it happened to us. Live your life in the way that works for you.

She's helping me see the beauty in choosing to do the hard thing, to try and salvage the life I've spent decades building with this man.

What a gem. Unfortunately in our little town I couldn't find anyone like that. Just be sure that doing the "hard thing" doesn't take too much out of you.

As for spending too much time here, yes it can be less than helpful. I was here for years. But then I knew I had to leave.

I come back from time to time (more in the last few months I guess) but rarely post.

Take care. Always do what works for you. Be selfish. We spent our lives denying our own needs in the service of our husbands and children.

You have earnt the right to put yourself first. Whatever that means.

HUGS

Laura

Laura, thank you so much for checking back in. I find it really valuable to hear from people who are long past dday and what their lives are like.

It is who he is and the ingrained habits from years of deception I believe are an integral part of who he has become.

Lately I'm realizing that my WS has ingrained habits of omission and avoidance from managing his mother's emotions since he was old enough to do so. I think over time, and after we became parents, he started to project that onto me, and it got a lot worse during the years of his affair since he was keeping secrets and lying to me. It's very interesting that in his professional life, his coworkers (especially the people who report to him) have a very different kind of relationship, one that is founded on integrity and communication.

I'm not really sure what to do with these insights. They're not helpful to reconciliation, especially since he doesn't show any inclination to work on this particular aspect of himself. I guess it's just more to add to the "divorce in a few years" column.

I just read a few pages here just now. Every single one of us has a unique version of the same damn stupid story. I have not been around for a long time. But I unexpectedly stumbled on information re my H’s VERY long term affair partner via mutual FB connection on Tuesday. My trauma trigger reactions were off the chart. Walkin’ into the damn walls moments. To my great relief, the AP left my town ten years ago & moved to another state. Eliminating the threat of public contact did a lot to end an obsessive concern over her & solidify a focus on myself and recovering my mental and physical health. I stayed married, but it turned out to be a 50/50 solution. Of course it did.

The AP is recently deceased. I outlived her.

A tsunami of emotion washes around in the aftermath of learning this. I know this group will understand like no others could. I don’t want to tell anyone else, not even H.

Wishing you all well,

Twenty

That sounds like a tough thing to go through, Twentyplus. We're here if you need to say more about that tsunami of feelings. I imagine it's a pretty wild mix of emotions.

You said "I stayed married, but it turned out to be a 50/50 solution." What did you mean by this?

Hi all,

I hope you have all good days. It’s hard to believe my last post was over a year ago. I don’t find many men on this thread. Today, a social media video happened to cross my path. Some might call it a trigger, maybe it was, but I consider it a memory.

The guy was saying there is an 80/20 rule for women. A woman picks her man because he’s everything she needs and wants, but then a reality hits and he’s now only 80%. That 20% can take over her sole around another man.

I started to think about how my wife had 100% during those 9 years. I kinda chuckled about it in a sarcastic way. I decided to check in. I read my journal again for the first time in maybe 10 years? I’m amazed at those thoughts I completely forgot about.

How ironic my dday was 9/11; coming up on the new me started 16 years ago. I’ve not mentioned her failure in probably in 13 years. I take great pride in that accomplishment. It’s part of forgiveness I learned from a book I read and decided to execute.

Last week, in a drunken stupor, My sister in law tried to bring up my W’s infidelity around my brother and my sister husband. I’m not even sure who knows. She must have heard about it. Our Kids and my mom were the only ones I ever talked about it. No family members ever knew timing. It was the first time I ever had to defend my W. It felt pretty good.

My son now 33, told me a couple years ago he was very glad I was able to fight for his mom and that we stay together.

Life is pretty good. I still have a passion for my job, 4 new grandkid in 3 years, and her behaviors changed to the better.I guess she likes the 80%.

Every single one of us has a unique version of the same damn stupid story.

Well that just sums it up doesn't it. Well said Twentyplus . Well said.

New here, posted my story in "I just found out". I'm dealing with a 22 year LTA that was there before we got married (14 years this year) and was present in her previous marriage. I'm in that place where there are so many triggers, so many people I have removed from my life, and so many places I will never revisit. I am moving at the end of the month, so the new surroundings should help.

Iknowhow, I am so sorry you find yourself here, dealing with the mindf*ck that is LTA and discovering you are in love with a fictional character. I read your posts on JFO and you are getting good counsel from the kind souls here. That you are making a clean break is probably the best thing you can do for yourself, ripping the bandaid off. It hurts more in the short term, but you have a clear path to regaining your life back without living in confusion and suspicion. For those of us who have stayed, and tried to reclaim a life with our cheaters, there is so much cognitive dissonance trying to reconcile the person we find ourselves looking at - both across the table and in the mirror. I’ve been through a lot in my life, but nothing has thrown me off kilter for so long as my WH’s lies and continued betrayal.

Per my user name, I’m not sure I will ever understand love or what it means to love beyond what I feel for my children. My WH destroyed the world we had built together but it was a charade anyway, wasn’t it? He also destroyed my ability to trust in another person, because he has shown me how easily he can manipulate and cause further damage as he flailed about, refusing to accept that he is the one needing counseling to figure things out, not me. I understand now that the hidden, broken person inside him will always come first, and that broken child who chose to lie and cheat is the same one who refuses to accept responsibility and work toward becoming a safe partner moving forward. I have come to see his world view as more fragile than mine, he has constructed a story about himself and is unable to face hard truths about the kind of person his actions reveal him to be, and he still thinks of himself as a good guy, and any mention of the A is an attempt by me to make him feel bad about himself. He has never been able to address my pain, shock, or any of the damage he has caused, and it makes him uncomfortable to the point of anger if I press the issue. I know, I should be long gone. It is a complicated thing to explain.

I’m trying to find something to say to you that can be useful at this very painful, early stage in your discovery. I waited way too long to get professional help and navigate the personal hurdles that were getting in the way of healing from my WH’s betrayal. They reached back to childhood, parental issues that were causing ingrained responses that made me feel unworthy of love or honesty, and I have worked very hard to recognize and manage those, and they don’t cloud the picture of my present problems as much. I hope you can slay any dragons from your past that might get in the way of recovering from such brutal betrayal by someone you trusted. It is the worst. The triggers are awful, and I’m sorry you have to work through so many. I still cannot look at family photos or anything really from 2009-2018 without getting nauseous. I still can’t reconcile the man in those pictures pretending to be who he was not, and worse, the happy idiot I was, accepting less than I deserved and trying so hard to keep him happy while my needs went unmet. I accept now that I married a man child, he hid his issues well, he hid his selfish narcissism well and he became a master manipulator. I can tell you with 100% certainty that he does not deserve me and that he is not worthy of my love, devotion and fidelity. Staying married is a daily decision for me, and honestly I don’t feel married or wear a ring anymore, because he invalidated our bond. We are still together, but it is a compromise I have had to make to find a way forward. I honestly don’t know what I even want anymore, and I’m ok with that for now.

If I had gotten all the truth at once, or caught him with the MOW, I would probably be long divorced. It took years to get the truth that you already have, so in that small way you are lucky. You found this site quickly which is huge, I was still clueless when I stumbled here over a year after my first DDay, trying to deal with a "long ago brief A" that turned out to be a decade long A, still going strong underground while we pretended to R. Count your blessings that the pain you find yourself in right now is the path to reclaiming the life you deserve. Take care of yourself in every way you can - eat healthy, hydrate, go for walks and talk to friends or family who can help support you in real life. The people here are great, but holding all this in for the rest of the world will drain you. I didn’t tell anyone in my daily life for over a year, and what a relief it was to have someone just hug me and say how sorry they were for what I was going through.

Be kind to yourself, and be on the watch for negative self talk, it is a terrible trap to fall into…. How could I, why did I, why didn’t I….. The only real question is why did she or he…. And the only answer I have found that fits is because they are damaged people, because they wanted to and because they could. I’m no longer questioning my motives, I think I have a handle on that. I’m getting old and life is so short and all I question now is how I want to spend the day I’m given. It’s liberating, but scary without the emotional safety net my marriage and relationship used to be in my life. I have grown by leaps and bounds in the last five years. My WH has not, and he likely never will. His loss, just another among so many others.

Best to you as you move through the maze of recovery and heal.

Hi Iknowhow.

It seems you have made up your mind and I would agree with the advice you have been given over in JFO. LTA’s are especially hard to deal with given that we wonder if any of our marriages were real or if we were just convenient as partners to our waywards. It will be hard to keep your head on straight following through while dealing with the trauma of multiple betrayals.

I suggest you head over to the Betrayed Menz forum within I Can Relate and also to Divorce/Separation forum. You’ll get bags of support and loads of really helpful advice as you negotiate your way through on this brutal journey. As the saying goes here – take what you need and leave the rest.

Do all that has been advised regarding your health and well-being. Take good care of yourself and good luck with moving on – both physically and emotionally.

UKg

Hi UKgirl

How are you? RUOK? Haven't seen you for a while. I pop in from time to time. Think of you often.

Hi Iknowhowtopickem

My heart goes out to you. Listen to the people here. They saved me 14 years ago. They can help.

Hugs to you

Laura

Iknowhowtopickem, I agree with the others that you are getting lots of great advice on the JFO thread. I'm piping in here to offer support. My WS's LTA was about 3 years long, but his DDay4 confessions included a prior infidelity 10 years ago. 14 years of secrets and lies is more than enough. If we didn't have a child under 18, I'd have left him already. I'm so sorry that your so-called wife is putting you through such trauma. It can take a while to rebuild your sense of reality, and it's so destabilizing in the meantime. Please take care.

Hi NoThanksForTheMemories

More than 14 years ago, I decided to stay for the children, one of whom had a serious illness and major depression.

DH FWH is reverting to form. Abusive, gaslighting-the usual shit. OW3 is sniffing around after all this time.

Starting to think I should have kicked him to the curb.

I don’t know much about your sich. All I can say is don’t give an inch. Protect yourself.

Hugs
Laura

Laura28,
Ugh. Sorry to see your update. I hope you are on top of the mess and protecting yourself. I get through my days reminding myself that the unthinkable has happened, so anything is possible now. Maybe part lowered expectations or just self preservation, or growing ambivalence. I’m done with wishful thinking. I hope you find the spot that works for you. Take care.

Laura28, I'm so sorry he's reverting after all this time. How traumatic! Do you think you could away at this point?

In the two months since that post, I have reached my limits and want to try separating for while. I don't know if I'll go for a full legal separation, but at the very least, I need to live apart from WS for a while. I don't think he's cheating, and he's kind of half-assedly working on himself, but I can't get over what happened, and I can't give him the kind of emotional or physical intimacy that he wants. He's asking for a real marriage again, and I just feel dead inside. I feel like time apart might finally help me heal. Whether it opens me back up to R, I don't know.

Dear everyone on this post,
I love you. I needed you today and you were all there. I kept highlighting things to reply to but it’s too much. You are all so wise and generous and this might be the most helpful things I have read so far in terms of touching my heart and making me feel at home.
I am currently in the ER with my teen who attempted suicide for the second time in the past year and a half. The first time around my WH was out of state and I didn’t even call him - I didn’t know about his LTA at that time, but he was so checked out that I didn’t even tell him for days. Annnnddd 90% of his affairs took place in the hospital where he worked, so being here is triggering in that way, also.
I’m just venting. Having a pity party. Maybe displacing a lot of my fear about my child to anger and hurt about his LTAs. I feel myself starting to spiral down the "I’m worthless" hole and maybe pain shopping. I did get a fancy coffee this morning so I’m going to nurse that and read my novel (how many of us pick up novels only to discover affairs is a theme???).
Trying not to spiral.
Oxox

Big hugs, Dandelion2024. I'm so sorry you're going through such scary times with your teen on top of everything else. Ours was having a very rough time (suicidal ideation, depression) last year. She's doing better this year and has been seeing a therapist regularly who really helps, but one of the reasons I'm afraid to divorce is because of her mental health.

It's sad that our WSes gave so little thought to the consequences of their action. The ultimate in selfishness. Sometime after dday and the stuff about our kid, I mentioned to WS some things that had concerned me a couple years earlier, and he was like, "why didn't you say anything before?" I told him, "Because you weren't talking to me then." He had the decency to look ashamed.

Do you have some self-care and a support network you can lean on for your own health?

Ironically I heard from his longest AP’s ex BS this morning. He was just checking and then told me that he thinks they have been seeing each other. The only evidence he has is that she has come to my home town several times in the past few months and that’s nothing she did before. So we (he?) suspects they are in touch underground. This does actually feel like a red flag to me. I wouldn’t even know if they were - I don’t even know where to begin to find out - he can call her from work he has work email addresses I mean, if he wants to see her, he will. This just rattled me so much today when I was already so fragile.