SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

You know, what you said about friends rings true for my husband also. The male friends he is close to all live in other states now—he talks and texts with them frequently (his best friend lives across the country but they communicate daily) and they meet up for a golfing trip once a year. She was someone he saw in person several times per week and had lots of opportunities for close collaboration as they were working on building a business together (along with 2 other male partners but the other 2 didn’t come into the office space very often). Coupled with the fact that she had her own marriage difficulties and really fell for my husband who was giving her the attention she wasn’t getting. Then my husband has this person who he is close to anyway, and now she is openly in love and physically attracted to him—an ego boost he was sadly unable to resist. We were not connecting deeply in our own relationship and when she gave him that level of excitement and desire the rest was history. I have accepted this and realize that I can forgive him for having those feelings which puts me on the path to full forgiveness for acting on them. I’m not totally there yet, but I can certainly understand the temptation which is a start. I am not excusing any of it or saying it was ok, and I’ll never understand how he could live a whole separate life and never let me know, but at least I can start the forgiveness process.

I think that’s the really important part. Understanding the whys and finding a way forward. It then gives you a place to start, to begin the journey of forgiveness.
It all sounds really positive and it’s great to hear you sounding in control and that you have a plan 🙏🏼

Just thinking of you. How are you doing today?

Here is our couples counselor’s response to my query about books for your husband:
The following response was written by someone who knows the author. They sent my question to her and she responded with her answer below. Clare Rosoman, Ph.D. wrote an excellent book that was published very recently by Routledge: Repairing Attachment Injuries in Close Relationships: An Emotionally Focused Guide to Moving Beyond Betrayal. I sent her your specific question and here's her response: Yes, there are sections on exploring how someone came to be hurtful or to step away from their promises/commitments, what they can learn from this, and exploring the role of past traumas or unmet needs that it might be stirring up or by driven by the hurtful actions." />

It may not be exactly what you are looking for but worth checking out. Our counselor did not know of any books that fit your needs but asked her colleagues and this is what she got in response. Hopefully it helps. Take care

Getting worried about you—hope you’re ok. Hugs.

Hiya, I’m so sorry. Had such a manic few days so haven’t had a chance to be on here.
I’m ok thank you. It was H’s Birthday in the week so that was a strange day. He didn’t want to celebrate it at all but I suggested we went out and have lunch, so we did and sat and talked about this crazy situation. So not your usual Birthday.
I am still chopping and changing my mind constantly. During the week I felt this was way too big to overcome. But then I saw the measly few Birthday cards he received for his Birthday (we’ve both lost all our grandparents/parents, extended family etc so have a very small family network) and that made me feel incredibly sad, that he would have absolutely no one if we divorced.
Not my problem I know as he’s caused this mess but I’m a good person so I care. I can’t help it as I know others wouldn’t care at all about what happens to him.
So a bit of a strange week!

Thank you so much for the book recommendation, I will definitely have a look at that.

How are you doing?

NnB -

I am still chopping and changing my mind constantly. During the week I felt this was way too big to overcome.

That sounds a whole lot like my first two years of recovery. Just be sure to be kind to you and don't worry about the dreaded emotional roller coaster. -- you're very normal!

Moving towards 9-years after day, I don't have any of the books I picked up (something around 30 relationship books and a third of them covering infidelity), I gave them away a couple years ago.

The 'why' themes are all eerily similar, a lot of tough childhoods, a lot of unhealthy relationship examples for a WS along the way, but the biggest are boundaries and ego. If a WS doesn't ever address why they needed the outside validation, they can't ever be a safe partner.

My wife checked a few of the boxes, but she never showed her low esteem -- she fronted self-confidence as good or better than anyone I've met.

The strange thing about her LTA, the way it ended, it crushed her esteem even more. Dumped by her AP in a harsh manner, she couldn't imagine that she did not matter to AP at all.

And since my wife kept her A a secret, she had to rebuild her esteem on her own and she did, by doubling down as a parent, by working harder at her job, building bridges with family that made her childhood miserable.

By the time she confessed her A, the only thing she needed work on was boundaries, and through IC she realized she let a lot humans in too close (mostly over sharing info).

The guilt thing. Yeah, that didn't kick in at all until after the confession. She completely bought into the false assumption that I couldn't be hurt by what I didn't know. It's a nasty rationalization, but a lot of WS lean into it.

You'll find your path forward, with or without the 'why' info, as we ultimately learn, there is no good reason to ever choose to cheat.

Hi OldWounds, thank you for the reassurance that what I’m feeling is normal - as some days I feel like I’m going crazy!
I know I’m nowhere near ready to make any decision either way, while I’m still on this rollercoaster of emotions.
My H is doing absolutely everything that he’s been asked to do. He’s cut all contact with the OW, changed his phone number, blocked her on social media, allowed me full access to his phone, messages, emails etc, has taken full responsibility, answers all my questions (even my repeated one’s) and is having IC.
He is digging deep to try and understand himself better and to try and become a safe partner.
I have told him that at the moment I have absolutely no idea whether we can save our marriage or not – so that he knows that he is on the verge of losing me and understands the enormity of this and how much damage he has caused.
I can see that he will do anything to try and save our marriage but time will tell.
If it had been a shorter affair I don’t think I’d have the reservations that I do.
But, when I see him working so hard, being so critical of himself and taking the IC so seriously I know I can’t walk away just yet.
I’m sorry to hear what you’ve been through but it’s very reassuring to hear that you and your wife are still together and finding a way forwards. I hope you both continue to be happy

Oldwounds:"The guilt thing. Yeah, that didn't kick in at all until after the confession. She completely bought into the false assumption that I couldn't be hurt by what I didn't know. It's a nasty rationalization, but a lot of WS lean into it."

Yes, my WH said the same thing—I was never going to know so it would never hurt me. The A would just burn itself out and they could go back to just being friends who work together. It is a very stupid rationalization because of course it was hurting our relationship the whole time, I just didn’t know it. And there was no going back to being platonic work partners after that—I don’t know how either of them thought that could happen. There was some guilt on his part during the affair, but not enough to put a hard stop to it. And when everything blew up she immediately left the business and all communication between them was immediately stopped so I am thankful for that.

NandB: I guess you’re glad the whole birthday thing is over with now. I think it’s totally normal that you keep flip-flopping with your choices—there is no rush to make any hard and fast decisions right away. You just have to live with it a bit and do what’s best for you, no matter what anyone else thinks or what will happen to him. And what you said about caring despite what he did —that is so true and I guess what outsiders don’t understand. You don’t just stop caring about someone who you have loved for over half your life (in my case) just because they did something that hurt you. You just have to decide what caring will look like from now on.
As for me, I am still doing ok, still with the mindset of being present in the current moment and enjoying the relationship we have now. We really do love each other and are both committed to moving forward together with whatever happens from now on. This is what makes me happy right now so I’m going with it. Keeping my mind off the past is not easy but it really helps not to be mired in reliving everything that happened. My IC likened it to a pit of fire that you’re trying to climb out of but the ladder is so hot that you keep slipping back in. It took a lot of work to get out and I’m not falling back into that pit again.

Hey Numb --

I know I’m nowhere near ready to make any decision either way, while I’m still on this rollercoaster of emotions.

Allow yourself as much time as you choose.

While my wife's LTA was 4-years PA, 3-years EA -- that length of time definitely added to the time I needed to figure things out. Although, I know members here who were as hurt I was with only a one-night stand. The pain of betrayal, the loneliness of it, is a very unique hurt to heal from.

Your husband maintained horrible choices a long time, if you decide to offer a last chance, as noted before, he will need to SHOW you the best version of him for a very long time as well.

Don't stay because he will be lonely, I can only advise people to stay if they think they can rebuild the M into something worth staying for.

It takes a while for a WS (with any kind of conscience) to believe in themselves again too -- it's a lot of work.

Focus on your healing the best you can for now.

Hey Alteredreality -

I am sorry you are here among us, but I do have to say, for a forum handle name, "Alteredreality" is a really good choice.

Our existence is not what we thought it was, we were in a competition we didn't know we were in.

It is a very stupid rationalization because of course it was hurting our relationship the whole time, I just didn’t know it.

The day my wife truly understood and then owned her horrific choices (and bad rationalizations) was a decent day for us. I don't know that a WS ever fully understands the damage caused until they see us in pain.

The moment a WS starts down that slippery slope, ignoring boundaries, etc., that's the day they became unfaithful, the rest of the horror show is just piling on.

I hope your healing continues!

AlteredReality, I’m loving the positivity that I’m getting from your posts. I agree, constantly looking back does you absolutely no favours at all & just drags you down again. We can’t change what our H’s have done but we can control what happens from this point onwards.
I’m trying to live in the here and now and not dwell on the past anymore because it’s preventing me from moving forwards.

Oldwounds, I know some people would say he deserves it, but I can see the pain my H is feeling. He says he doesn’t like the person he is and is determined to get the most out of IC and become a better person and a safe partner. Time will tell

Thanks oldwounds. Yes I came up with alteredreality pretty quickly as that is exactly how I felt—like in one instant as my WH was coming clean and telling me everything (I had absolutely NO idea anything was going on—her husband found texts on her phone and threatened to tell me so he had to) my entire reality changed. Everything that I thought was true and real was suddenly shaken to the core and turned upside down. I had a period of time where I just couldn’t believe or trust anything. That was 3 1/2 months ago and I am finally reaching a point where I am past the shock and gut-wrenching pain and ready to start the forgiveness process and move on with our lives. I’ll keep you all posted but feeling hopeful and taking one day at a time. Thanks for your support.

NandB: Hope you had a decent weekend and you are making some progress with processing your feelings. It’s just so hard sometimes to stay on an even keel. Even with all the positive things going on with us, I still have this feeling of dread sometimes in the pit of my stomach that threatens to overtake me. Like she could just try to contact him and tear down everything we are building back up in an instant. Realistically I don’t think that would happen even if she did contact him, but I never thought the other nightmare could happen to us so I can’t completely trust anything. There is still that feeling of self-preservation as I never want to feel like I did right after DDay again. It’s like I can only stay strong and positive for so long before I start to slip back into that pit of fire. But I am getting only positive vibes and actions from him so that helps keep some of those negative thoughts away. Time is our friend in all of this but I just want to speed everything up and get to the good parts. Anyway I don’t mean to sound negative, things are still going well for us, we had a good weekend together and our connection continues to grow so all is good there. I hope you and your H continue to be able to work things out, as long as that is what you want. It really is all about what WE want now for a change, isn’t it? It feels good to have some control in all of this.

I often ask a therapist about issues on here. Her overall take is something stopped emotional maturing while your WSs were children. They possibly learned to shut off feelings because their FOO was too focused on shaming the children for being children. LTAs are lies of omission over the course of their lives. What made them that way. We all assume that each of us are exactly alike. Not true. One child might hide mentally and physically and another stand up for themselves. Also some WSs might be on the spectrum. They are somewhat robotic in how they run their lives. My suggestion for any of your WSs is EMDR with a very well trained therapist. There is something inside them that allows them to wall off anything uncomfortable. Anxiety is a horrible emotion so almost everyone does whatever is necessary to get away from it. Lastly, there might be some form of psychopathy in them. I admire all of you for your bravery. I have no idea if I could live with my husband if this happened. In my case he cheated while we were young and had young children. I had no way of financial independence at the time so I walled of knowledge of his cheating and would never think about it for years. Whatever caused your WSs to go off the rails probably started in childhood. And sex is enjoyable. If you have poor boundaries it is easy to slide right down that slope.

Hi AlteredReality, I’m ok thank you. Had a chilled weekend - spent some time with my H but also some separate time with my Sister.
Then had a massage and facial today as I felt I needed some "me" time.

I’ve been spending a lot of time looking at what life would look like if we separate.
I’m not in the best of health and the Menopause has kicked in with a passion. So I haven’t been well enough to work full time for a while now.
I work part time but it doesn’t bring in enough money for me to live on my own.
So that is a massive worry for me, as I would have to work full time which would put a lot of pressure on me.
Don’t get me wrong, that wouldn’t be the reason I would stay with him. But it has to be considered.

Meanwhile, H is still doing everything he can to show me he is trying to save our marriage. I’ve told him he needs to continue with the IC and digging deep to understand himself.

Cooley2here, it’s interesting what you’ve said. My H had a huge childhood trauma (his Mum died suddenly and unexpectedly in front of him when she was 41 and he was 13). They were always very close. His Dad was always at work so he spent the rest of his childhood hanging out with friends at their houses.
His counsellor said he learnt from a very young age to shut down his emotions and box them off. Something it seems he’s very well rehearsed at.
He also has ADHD and, we suspect, is on the Autistic Spectrum so there is a lot his counsellor is trying to work through with him.

AlteredReality, sounds like you’ve had a good weekend and are in a good place. I can understand why you’re worried she might make contact but hold onto the hope that your H is working hard to show you he loves you and is fighting for your marriage. But also that he would make the right decision should she make contact.
Damn hard though when you know he’s made poor decisions in the past I know, but this is now and not then 🙏🏼

NandB: don’t get me started on menopause. My symptoms were so bad I had to go on hormone replacement therapy which has made a HUGE difference. It really sucks being a woman sometimes. I went through the money concerns in my head as well when it first happened, as I retired from being a part-time physiotherapist 2 years ago. But we have a beach condo that has appreciated greatly since we bought in 2018 so selling that plus selling our current house would give us a nice cushion to add to his current salary and allow us to have separate places. Hopefully it won’t come to that but it is important to think about this stuff. Certainly not what I thought I would need to worry about at this stage of my life but none of this was.
I hope your H keeps walking the walk and not just talking the talk, as they say. And I hope you get some clarity soon about the path you want to take. Stay in touch.

It’s not what I thought I’d have to be worrying about at this point in my life either.
I found out about this only a few days after our 24th wedding anniversary.
On the evening of our wedding anniversary we went out for a meal and sat discussing how it would be nice to renew our vows on our 25th Anniversary.
We didn’t have a big white wedding, only a small one, so I’ve never even tried a wedding dress on.
So in my head I had started to make a few plans about the sort of dress that I’d like to wear and the venue, etc. Then this bombshell hit 😢

I think it would be easier to get my head around all of this if we had problems in our marriage. If I could look back and remember us arguing, not getting on, not being intimate, not sharing the same values, him not being a good father etc then this probably wouldn’t have been such a shock.

My sons both feel the same – all they’ve ever seen (obviously to our faces) is a good Dad and Husband. They’ve never seen any issues - my H says there weren’t any - so it makes it so much harder to get your head around.

And, since I found out, he has done absolutely everything and more to show me that he’s trying to find out why he’s done this, who he really is and is fighting for our marriage.
Again, if I could see a man that was taking no ownership, blaming me for everything, not answering my questions and not fighting at all then I would see much more easily that I have absolutely no future with him.

I did try HRT last year (gel) but didn’t feel good on it so I stopped. But I think I’ll go back and try the patches as I need to try and feel a bit better in myself.

I have sent you a PM now I’ve posted enough times but I’m not sure if you’ll be able to see it until you’ve posted enough? Let me know. ☺️