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I honestly dont get it, had ic yesterday and I recorded the session for my BS to hear. Anyway during it I was asked "have you now told her everything " rather than simply say yes my brain goes "I'd say yes absolutely 100%" before then going further to say why I feel that way and ending with my BUT my BS would say no.

Anyway Bs feels this was freudian slip, I disagreed but given she still feels I'm lying just added that extra little nugget to this shit sandwich. Anyway, I got angry and said some stupid shit for which I apologised for. Later that afternoon I tried to talk and reiterate my apology but she just repeatedly came out with I dont care and I dont give a shit then the stonewalling came. Anyway mg point, rather than just accept she is upset I got cross and embarrassingly entitled, i was left ruminating on the sofa whilst she took the girls off to watch tv elsewhere claiming I didnt want too (which wasnt true). Being left on my own I was thinking to myself how supportive and good I've been recently in so many ways, how I have been that shoulder to cry on and not had any expectations so given the way she spoke to me and was now treating me (total cold shoulder, ignoring me, talking to me like crap) which had really upset me I just became a prat. I eventually went to bed and tried to explain i was really upset and how I just feel a level of respect in how we communicate should be shown but I kept being told "you don't deserve respect" and that I should expect to be spoken too like this.....anyway I snapped and essentially said to her she was unlovable. I knew it would sting given we had a conversation 24 hrs prior about this but I was angry and that was how I lashed out.

I feel like a pos, I dont know why I cant control this and I cant understand why suddenly I am finding myself so angry when all she is doing is expressing how she doesnt believe me. I know some of it is because we make commitments to one another but I then feel she breaks this but I just hate what this is doing to both us.

Im not really sure why ive written this tbf just wanted these thoughts out my head

Lost of stuff in this TT.

"I'd say yes absolutely 100%" before then going further to say why I feel that way and ending with my BUT my BS would say no.

My IC tells that he observed that I
- let my feelings about myself be determined by what my wife thinks or says about me
- I seem to know a lot about what my wife thinks about things.

So the first one is true and thats not helpful. its more helpful if my feelings about myself come from my higher power first of all and then me - not anyone else. (for me the higher power is God) If you do any 12 step programs they all have the concept of higher power.

The second one is true to and that came up last session so we havent worked through that but I think the concern would be that maybe I only believe what my wife thinks and I really dont know what i believe. I will grapple with that with the IC next session.

Anyway Bs feels this was freudian slip, I disagreed but given she still feels I'm lying just added that extra little nugget to this shit sandwich. Anyway, I got angry and said some stupid shit for which I apologised for. Later that afternoon I tried to talk and reiterate my apology but she just repeatedly came out with I dont care and I dont give a shit then the stonewalling came.

good to see you recognise that you did some wrong things. So you could have said "Im disappointed that my IC session is still not quieting that voice inside you that tells you that i am still lying. i love you and my continual lying has damaged our relationship so much. I have been truthful about my infidelity because i know its the only currency that i have to help with restoring trust. I will explore my weak response to the IC in my next session" but you chose to be defensive instead. So probably useful to understand why you think she was attacking you such that you had to defend in such an overtly aggressive way?

i was left ruminating on the sofa whilst she took the girls off to watch tv elsewhere claiming I didnt want too (which wasnt true). Being left on my own I was thinking to myself how supportive and good I've been recently in so many ways, how I have been that shoulder to cry on and not had any expectations so given the way she spoke to me and was now treating me (total cold shoulder, ignoring me, talking to me like crap) which had really upset me I just became a prat.

good to see what you did but I want to challenge you on this a little bit.

1. your wife didnt ask you to ruminate. thats something you chose to do.
2. yes she lied to the girls - what should she have said? Daddy has been a real a-hole and i dont feel safe or loved sitting her at the moment so we will go watch TV someone else if thats ok with you? what would have been truthful but not damaging to the kids? and on 1 level its true because you wanted to ruminate about how UNFAIR her actions were OR you wanted to pretend that nothing was wrong when really you should have been resolving the issue with your wife.

3. during your infidelity would you get angry with your wife and be defensive anytime she questioned you. If yes then she now links that behaviour with your infidelity. each time you behave like that you trigger her trauma. this is my life and its very difficult to change. for me every time I choose to see her anger as an expression of pain. it would be good to have a mantra you say to yourself - verbal abuse is an expression of pain - and the longer you stay with that attitude the more heard she will feel. and then start your responses with "yes - i hear your pain. that is my history - not my current or my future" but only do that if its true. if you are still offending stop pretending and walk away from the relationship.

how I just feel a level of respect in how we communicate should be shown but I kept being told "you don't deserve respect" and that I should expect to be spoken too like this.....anyway I snapped and essentially said to her she was unlovable. I knew it would sting given we had a conversation 24 hrs prior about this but I was angry and that was how I lashed out.

its good that you tried to be assertive. it appears that like me you have been a people pleaser for a long time and to assert yourself is new but important. however i think that your description of your behaviour suggests that maybe you would have been more effective to give that message if you said. "hey im so sorry that i disrespected you and your feelings in our conversations today. its really attrocious that i continue to do this badly. I need you to pull me up when i do that - and i hope its ok if I do that with you to. but i need to lead by example with my language and attitude and I will be doing that.

Telling your wife that she is unlovable is an absolutely @#$%#@$%#@ thing to do. you need to pull your head out of your backside and realise that you are the offender and she is the victim. If anything as the offender you probably deep down believe you are either unlovable or unworthy - and your infidelity behaviour comes from that. I hope you have big time apologised on that by now.

I dont know why I cant control this and I cant understand why suddenly I am finding myself so angry when all she is doing is expressing how she doesnt believe me. I know some of it is because we make commitments to one another but I then feel she breaks this but I just hate what this is doing to both us.

I get angry because my wife doesnt believe me. I get angry when she walks back from agreements. but is that righteous anger. - no its self-righteous. for me i dont like the pain from the consequences i'm in so when she reacts in the moment to something I will get frustrated very quickly and lash back. it feels like i want to punish her and hurt her for how she is hurting me in the moment. I do that a lot less now but it is a risk for me. but for me that means I think im the victim of her injustice and my anger is seeking justice for myself. if this resonates for you use the mantra "she is the victim" and that might help you stay away from lashing back. the reality for me is that i had a very low tolerance to hurt and pain before i lashed out directly or in my typical passive aggressive fashion. over the last two years I have grown a much larger tolerance and you will need to do that to.

anyway hope we can both continue to move towards healthy emotional health for ourselves so we can offer something of value to our very loving and hurt wives.

I'm wondering how long it's been since you stopped TT'ing. She doesn't trust you and, more importantly, she doesn't trust herself to discern the truth.

I'm a MH, and the hardest thing for me to deal with as the BS was not knowing the truth of my own situation. Before DDay, I would have bet the house that my H had never cheated on me, and then I found out that he had cheated on me almost from the beginning. That was a real mindf*ck. My H never TT'ed me, and it was still very difficult. You did TT your W. You lied to her after discovery. She may never believe you again.

But you must stand firm and calm in truth. When she doesn't believe you, you tell her that you understand why, you apologize for the things you did that gave her good reason for doubt, but that you are telling the truth. If she gets shitty like she did last night, let her get shitty and don't join in. Stay calm. That's your job now.

Being left on my own I was thinking to myself how supportive and good I've been recently in so many ways, how I have been that shoulder to cry on and not had any expectations so given the way she spoke to me and was now treating me (total cold shoulder, ignoring me, talking to me like crap) which had really upset me I just became a prat.

The thing is, you're the reason she needed that shoulder to cry on, so don't expect for her to have a sudden shift in attitude because you're finally being who you were supposed to be all along.

Have you done any MC? I think it could be very helpful.

Do you typically record your sessions? There are two lines of thinking on that. I feel like if I would have had to record IC or give permission to have my husband get info from her, it would have set up an unsafe environment for IC and defeated the purpose.

I don’t think you can not abide by what she is requesting you do.

But there are times where we want to expose our thinking so it can be remedied and being afraid of how I must speak would have caused me not to explore the darker stuff I didn’t want to say out loud.

In addition - I had to be able to say the negative things so I could examine my thinking and keep reframing. Him having recordings would have impeded that as well. I know a bs is afraid of what you are thinking but they can gauge changes so many other ways

My h would have picked it all apart, and the reality is what we are really trying to accomplish in IC is self awareness. Being aware of his perceptions of me was also important, but mixing his perceptions with trying to discover my authentic self would have been confusing and would have blurred boundaries. So I just don’t love this as a concept.

Anyway I know this is not really the problem.

It sounds like she hit you low and you went lower. I would recommend that you both read Dr. Gottman’s theories on conflict and how to be more productive when there is a disagreement. It sounds like there are missing skills and because of that you both grow frustrated until it devolves.

I don’t think I will give you a lecture here. Obviously you know how low it went with you saying she was unlovable. the fact you are frustrated with yourself and really upset about this tells me that you are already being guided by your own conscious which means that you don’t have anything wrong with you inherently. You don’t want to behave this way, and you are proud of the ways you had been behaving. I personally think you may just be missing the skills to effectively resolve conflict. That is completely normal for a people pleaser. It’s a muscle that you have to build.

For me, I would get so anxious in those conflicts that I would sometimes say things I didn’t mean. You should talk to your IC about coping skills surrounding dealing with conflict and ways to manage it. Things to say and do to de-escalate situations, etc. I would also suggest doing Gottmans books together so that you can resolve conflict more effectively together. His theory is the way couples fight is the highest predictor of divorce that exists.

In the mean time, I would find ways to make true amends to her over the unlovable comment. As you are aware that cut her to the bone. Keep fighting the good fight. Your desire to not respond in these ways is only effective if you follow through and learn a different way to respond. Don’t let shame over this make you continue to go backwards. The only option you have is to keep doing the next right thing and continue to work on your consistency..

let my feelings about myself be determined by what my wife thinks or says about me

This is so accurate and have felt this way for a while now, i know that I am being 100% honest now but it just feels ridiculous to say that given her beliefs. Anytime I have tried to explain how I feel and what I believe it often gets laughed at. I get exactly why she feels the way she does, makes absolute sense as I have been a total jerk especially when it comes to TT but she doesnt understand it all has to start somewhere.

So probably useful to understand why you think she was attacking you such that you had to defend in such an overtly aggressive way?

I know it is a variety of things:-

1. I hate being (God this sounds pathetic) stone walled as don't believe it's helpful or beneficial to try and not resolve the argument ....but I also see what I did was just even more stupid and time should be afforded to her.
2. This has been building for a while now but comes and goes as time has gone on. I get told that I haven't changed that I am not putting the effort in etc along with some other stuff which I feel is uncalled for. Then when things are good I get told i cant do anymore and that she can see how much effort I put in and how empathic I am (really hurts my head) it is so confusing and that's just the start of it.

1. your wife didnt ask you to ruminate. thats something you chose to do.
2. yes she lied to the girls - what should she have said? Daddy has been a real a-hole and i dont feel safe or loved sitting her at the moment so we will go watch TV someone else if thats ok with you? what would have been truthful but not damaging to the kids? and on 1 level its true because you wanted to ruminate about how UNFAIR her actions were OR you wanted to pretend that nothing was wrong when really you should have been resolving the issue with your wife.

1. Totally agree, I should have been ok about it. I didnt want to ruminate on it but I just had this sense of injustice due to the fact I know I'm being honest and I was just trying to say my piece BUT I know at the end of the day that's on me and not on her at all.
2.Agree, I see that from what she said this morning to me before work.

3. during your infidelity would you get angry with your wife and be defensive anytime she questioned you. If yes then she now links that behaviour with your infidelity. each time you behave like that you trigger her trauma. this is my life and its very difficult to change. for me every time I choose to see her anger as an expression of pain. it would be good to have a mantra you say to yourself - verbal abuse is an expression of pain - and the longer you stay with that attitude the more heard she will feel. and then start your responses with "yes - i hear your pain. that is my history - not my current or my future" but only do that if its true. if you are still offending stop pretending and walk away from the relationship

This is actually rather insightful, prior to my A I never behaved like this however during the A I became this total goon who would pick arguments not because she quizzed me etc but just because it made me feel better about my decisions (justifying it to myself) so I would argue about the smallest of things. I never considered this for a second.

You nailed the final points, very much a people pleaser who has been very much horizontal with his feelings. I never share as it feels problematic and I recognise I need to find alternative ways to manage this moving forward.

Thank you for your comments and insight.

SS

I'm wondering how long it's been since you stopped TT'ing. She doesn't trust you and, more importantly, she doesn't trust herself to discern the truth

Not long at all, about six weeks ago was when I finally came back to her with my final truths about it all. It had been torture for her up to that point.

Have you done any MC? I think it could be very helpful.

We had two sessions and it was awful as the MC was very opinionated from the get go and had the cheek to say "well if you didnt go gp then you couldnt have been depressed" that and at the time I was too focused on trying to fix the M and not lose what I had left so was still lying.

I would 100% go back to a new MC tomorrow not to try and rug sweep but for us to try and build our future back however my BS isnt keen. well she was then she wasnt so I actually dont know.

Ho,

Do you typically record your sessions?

Previously no, however we try and discuss how sessions have gone but I just really struggle at times to really think about it and give her a breakdown of the hour. I am more than therefore happy to record as it means we can both dissect it together afterwards. I recognise what you say though and your concerns.

But there are times where we want to expose our thinking so it can be remedied and being afraid of how I must speak would have caused me not to explore the darker stuff I didn’t want to say out loud.

Absolutely agree, this wasn't my initial thought however certainly makes me question doing this in future however this is something I would have to first discuss with my BS. I dont believe my IC will agree to discuss sessions with my BS.

My h would have picked it all apart, and the reality is what we are really trying to accomplish in IC is self awareness. Being aware of his perceptions of me was also important, but mixing his perceptions with trying to discover my authentic self would have been confusing and would have blurred boundaries. So I just don’t love this as a concept.

Agree, my BS is incredibly detail specific and her personality is simply tht of Erin brockovich. I could say something to her and instead she focuses on individual specifics such as in this case "I'd say..."

For me, I would get so anxious in those conflicts that I would sometimes say things I didn’t mean. You should talk to your IC about coping skills surrounding dealing with conflict and ways to manage it. Things to say and do to de-escalate situations, etc. I would also suggest doing Gottmans books together so that you can resolve conflict more effectively together. His theory is the way couples fight is the highest predictor of divorce that exists

I will be doing on my next session this coming week. The anger in me I just can't continue with as it's so destructive and is just ridiculously unfair on her at a time when already she is struggling.

Anyway thanks all for your help. I don't know where or how this will pan out but regardless I need sort my shit out before it gets worse.

So further update after a chat with my BS.

Yesterday I apologised profusely over calling her unlovable, it was totally unacceptable. I also apologised for going down the whole "thats it, I'm done, I can't take this anymore". Its something I have said I won't do, but when we get into these arguments about whether I'm still lying or not, I really really struggle to hold my emotions together and I snap and there have been a couple times now in recent months where I have lashed out and said this in just frustration.

So after apologising for all of this, I didn't hear from her for the rest of the day and we both went to work. I randomly got a text from her out the blue just saying "Can you get me xyz departments contact details?" (So work related basically. We don't work together but in her role she deals with some of the departments at my work). I obliged and provided her the details she needed.

A few hours after that, before I left work, she messaged me just saying she feels really lonely, abandoned and empty. I replied saying "Oh hun, I'm sorry I'm not surprised I didnt handle yesterday at all well again. I get it though, I have so many mixed emotions about it all 😞"

I called her on the way home and again i did apologise for the unlovable comment and telling her, yet again,  we are over (in anger). I was also trying to talk to her about how i feel and what is upsetting me and how much I struggle. I asked her does she not ever consider her own actions and whether she feels she needs to change anything in the way she behaves i.e the hurtful comments, stonewalling, rudeness and anger. I explained that these things hurt and upset me. I know they are generally in response to the way I have badly handled things though. I then explained that for example I hadnt heard from her for most of the day and that all she had done was send me a text asking for these contact details....no "hi", or please, no mention of her pain or how she may feel, just blanking me most of the day and then that text. I just wanted to point out how it came across as dismissive :-( 

She now feels this is me being entitled. She has said that after what I had said to her, an apology didn't just make it better which I had already accepted and explained. She said that if roles were reversed, she would have just been pleased to hear from me at all and seen it as another opportunity for her to reach out and ask how I am. 

I don't feel at all this is me being entitled, or not remorseful. I just feel that there should be a level of understanding and respect between us both and I just want her to understand that I have feelings too and I was just explaining that her text, after ignoring me all day, the bluntness/Curtnes, upset me. She was angry then tearful this morning, crying saying the doesn't know what is wrong me and why I can't understand that I'm being really entitled and lacking in remorse and that she hates me and that she is disappointed in me, which really hurts but these aren't new remarks and I know she doesnt mean these but it cant help but hurt.

I can't understand how this is me being entitled and lacking remorse though 😪 

 Can I remove the stop sign as I do want opinions of other BS's, but please I would ask that this doesn't turn into a bashing of me as it's not

TT1980

As ever, this is coming from a position very similar to yourself. I am living what you're going through and more importantly I am putting my BS through the same shit you are. My comments are not based on any superiority or meant as an attack on you. I know you understand this from our previous conversations but feel it is necessary to open with this. I don't like coming across as anything other than a wayward in a poor stage of R.

- It's been pointed out and you've acknowledged the comment about BS being unlovable was horrific. Totally unforgivable. I have said similar and indeed worse. You have said you feel like a POS for saying it. Of course, so you should. You/we need to learn from these comments and dig deep into where they're coming from. I challenge yourself, did you at any time feel justified in the comment? Do you think that in some way you were right in saying what you said? Going back into the past I would justify some of my comments, even blaming my BS for me saying such hurtful things. My self pity and all round awful behaviour was deep rooted. If you do have these feelings still then this is something to bring up with IC. It is a long hard road getting yourself out of these thought and saying the horrible things we do. It will not happen by wishing it away.

- I too record my IC sessions. Primarily for my benefit. I often come out of a session and have a fuzzy memory of what was said. I will often then write up notes on the session detailing what was discussed and my responses to questions. I have tried to challenge these, it's hard to self challenge but can be useful. BS has listened my sessions in the past. We do not often do this, similar to my journal. They are my space, however I am comfortable being asked questions and indeed sharing parts of my journal. I have in the past written this in the journal that I don't like reading back, if BS were to read it then it could be really upsetting. They're often me just unloading frustration or anger. Swearing and writting nasty stuff. Nothing I really mean, but things I may have said to her directly in the past. I do go back and add comments later to explain that I do not feel this really.

- The balance between you being full of shit (lies and TT) and being open and honest is HUGELY against you. You say it's been 6 weeks since you have told BS everything. 6 weeks v years? This is no time at all. There is no way she is ready to believe you. She is absolutely entitled to not believe you. She may never trust you or fully believe you again. This is a concept I struggle with. We do have to accept it though. Even with the new found honesty, you are going to be called out, you are going to be questioned, BS is still going to be angry. SHE HAS A RIGHT TO ALL OF THIS. It is something that we need to be comfortable with, things being unfair are part of our future. We have inflicted a shit tonne of unfair in BSs, nit is time to take some back.

- Please stop lasing out in any form. We cannot do this. We simply can't

- Not putting in the effort. I hear this one. Only you know how much effort you're putting in. Only you know how much effort you put into your infidelity. Everyone else, and most importantly your BS can only speculate. I guarantee you you are worlds apart in your beliefs. You have made progress, you have done a lot of the work needed. You feel a better man, you no longer want to be unfaithful. Yet, BS sees none of this!! Why? It could be because the effort you're putting in is the wrong type. I've said many times you doing ABC and BS needs XYZ causes conflict. You're working hard on the wrong things. It could be because BS is not seeing the things you're doing. Feeling like a POS is different from telling BS that you feel like a POS and why you feel it. BS might see changes, but the changes you're making are bringing you up to the level of a non wayward. BS will not go skipping and dancing because we're no longer actively involves in infidelity. It's like the guys who do nothing around the house and leaving everything to their other half, then expecting a fanfare when they take the bins out. Not being a POS, while good, does not get recognition, because it really shouldn't. Especially from the person you've hurt the most.

- If I understand the lie to the kids correctly, she was protecting you. Please try and see this in the future. So many time I have chosen to see why BS said or did something. I chose to see it as an attack or criticism. In reality she was trying to help.

Your BS, like mine, has every right to anger, to not believe us, to question us, to shout at us, to storm out. EVERY RIGHT. What you need to tell yourself is that she has every right to divorce you and yet you're still married. We are privileged to still be in our marriages, not we need to stop our own internal bullshit and see this.

Bulcy is spot on.

Never, ever, ever say that you're done unless you really, really mean it. Don't do it. When it comes to emotional intimacy, it's a cardinal sin. Learn to identify your feelings and shout about them, if you need to, but don't twist it all up and say hurtful things that make her feel less secure in her decision (so far) to stay, and less secure in believing in your desire to make things right.

"I'm so frustrated!" instead of "Thats it, I'm done, I can't take this anymore!" Print out a feelings list if you need help identifying what you're feeling. They're all over Google.

Like it or not, right now YOU are 80/20 responsible for moving towards her, reaching out with a heart emoji during the workday, asking how her day is going. Quit looking to her for what she can give to you to draw you in, and start truly giving love to her without expecting anything in return. That's when the magic happens. Don't expect shit from her right now. Just give.

She was angry then tearful this morning, crying saying the doesn't know what is wrong me and why I can't understand that I'm being really entitled and lacking in remorse and that she hates me and that she is disappointed in me, which really hurts but these aren't new remarks and I know she doesnt mean these but it cant help but hurt.

Oh, she means them. She is disappointed in you. You are acting entitled. And she does hate you sometimes, even though she still loves you. You hurt her tremendously. There is often hate involved in this healing process.

I was thinking to myself how supportive and good I've been recently in so many ways, how I have been that shoulder to cry on and not had any expectations

It is hard not to fall into this kind of thinking, but this thinking is also entitled and misled. What helped me see this is looking at the signs an abusive person has made real change (yes, what we have done is emotional abuse). Here are a couple I have had to face:

-Not demanding credit for improvements they’ve made
-Not treating improvements as vouchers to be spent on occasional acts of abuse (ex. "I haven’t done anything like this in a long time, so it’s not a big deal)

You are doing the first when you think you should get kudos for how good you've been recently. I still fall into this trap and have to consciously remind myself when I catch it. And the second is what you did when you called her unlovable. Which brings me to:

I snapped and essentially said to her she was unlovable. I knew it would sting given we had a conversation 24 hrs prior about this but I was angry and that was how I lashed out

Other people have told you how horrific this is, but I wanted to say more about why. You should check out Michelle May's book The Betrayal Bind for more. Mays talks about how BS are often stuck in shame wondering this exact thing, even if they know logically it isn't true. They have to work hard (because of us) to heal and truly believe it isn't. You saying it explicitly makes that work exponentially harder when you're the reason she is struggling with it in the first place.

I then explained that for example I hadnt heard from her for most of the day and that all she had done was send me a text asking for these contact details....no "hi", or please, no mention of her pain or how she may feel, just blanking me most of the day and then that text. I just wanted to point out how it came across as dismissive :-(

She now feels this is me being entitled.

This is 100% you being entitled. She doesn't owe you a single word.

I can recognize that probably there are some patterns with your wife that belong to her. We all have that aspect. It stands to reason that sometimes our dysfunctional ways align with someone else’s and we get married.

I also think healing between two people is never congruent. And the ws can grow beyond the bs or vice versa.

You aren’t there yet. Right now it’s not reasonable for you to ask your wife to change the pre- affair patterns because she is still too overwhelmed and riding the rollercoaster. It sounds like the dips in the coaster ride have become less but when one happens you maybe more inclined to over react because it feels like you just took major giant steps backwards.

As sacredsoul said, your role right now is really to try to keep your eye on the idea your wife has not recovered from the trauma yet. While you might could have demanded her to look at her behavior before the infidelity, the trauma that has been inflicted has taken center stage for the foreseeable future.

That being said,if you can reach solid footing agin, I would definitely listen to the Gottman books together if you can. Everything you describe is listed in the four horseman (google it). I think you need to recognize that you are not good at conflict, but it’s a muscle you can exercise and learn to deescalate and respond in loving and respectful ways. Disagreements can be worked through calmly. Right now kee your eye on the ball:

1. Remember why you want to reconcile in the first place.
2. Start a gratitude practice so that your brain is trained to see the good. That way when the bad happens you have more balance in your perspective.
3. Practice taking deep breaths when you are overwhelmed and not sure how to respond.
4. Try and put yourself in her shoes as much as possible.

I

So after apologising for all of this, I didn't hear from her for the rest of the day and we both went to work. I randomly got a text from her out the blue just saying "Can you get me xyz departments contact details?" (So work related basically. We don't work together but in her role she deals with some of the departments at my work). I obliged and provided her the details she needed.

TT - i presume the apology was in person so what and why were you waiting to hear from her? my view is that you needed to initiate - and I tell you this because I wish I would do that to because its hard. And the random message from your wife confirms that she wants you to remind her and tell her she is lovable. when you remind her of a bad thing you say can sometimes reinforce the message you sent. you could have reached out during the day and told all the lovable things about her. and oh my goodness - you "obliged" to her simple request. what a condescending and entitled attitude - that you were entitled so some acknowledgment of your apology or something. how about an attitude like. "it was great that she reached out and it was a simple request and I was overjoyed to provide it to her and my response was not clinical but showed my thankfulness that she is still interacting with me"

Before I left work, she messaged me just saying she feels really lonely, abandoned and empty. I replied saying "Oh hun, I'm sorry I'm not surprised I didnt handle yesterday at all well again. I get it though, I have so many mixed emotions about it all 😞"

I called her on the way home and again i did apologise for the unlovable comment and telling her, yet again, we are over (in anger). I was also trying to talk to her about how i feel and what is upsetting me and how much I struggle. I asked her does she not ever consider her own actions and whether she feels she needs to change anything in the way she behaves

TT - So she reaches out to you in vulnerability and you crap all over that beautiful gift with "im sorry about what i said but your behaviour was wrong" because your head is stuck in the land of being the victim of her verbal abuse" that is entitled. you are not practising the mantra "she is the victim i am the perpetrator and offender". AND she tells you she is LONELY, ABANDONED, EMPTY. - Why didnt you tell her things and DO things that help her move from feeling lonely to feeling connected with you (if thats what you want?) Why didnt you do or tell her something that made her feel PURSUED? why didnt you do something to FILL her empty love/trust thank?
so when
- she says LONELY - do something to CONNECT
- she says ABANDONED - do something to PURSUE (in her love language)
- she says EMPTY - do something to FILL her emptiness.

I dont know why I cant control this and I cant understand why suddenly I am finding myself so angry when all she is doing is expressing how she doesnt believe me

for me I choose not to control it when I dont want to. instead, I want to protect my self and my injustices because they are more important to me than the pain i inflicted on my wife. from my faith perspective Im moving from self-protection to living out the fruits of the spirit which are: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. so if I practise doing some of these every day then they will develop into a habit. and love includes the almost impossible expectation to be "not provoked" and thats something I need to work on a lot!

I have restarted FANOS each day - and that is meant to be 2/3 minutes each but generally turns into 30+ minute conversations that build connection. try it. (only if you are prepared to stick at it for at least a month)

towards healing and growth for us all.

Thank you for mentioning FANOS. I hadn't heard of it before so I looked it up. We have regular check ins scheduled and I think it could be helpful for guiding them.