SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

I think two things are true:

1. "I don’t remember" is among the most destructive things a wayward can say to a betrayed; and

2. Waywards often remember far more than they admit.

Your thoughts?

I don't remember means they do remember, but they don't want to deal with the consequences of their BS knowing,so they lie.

The ONLY acceptable answer is, "I don't remember, but give me a day or 2 to think about it,and I will dig into that question, and figure it out. I will give you a truthful response then."

And..then..they actually do as they say, and approach their BS with the truthful answer.

I think context is critical here. IDR or IDK isn't necessarily a problem in a context of answering the vast majority of questions. IMO, people tend to remember things they think are important. Two people in a relationship probably have some differences in what is important to them within a context of a lot of similarities. If partner A wants info about something partner B doesn't think is important, partner B may not remember. An IDR/IDK once in a while may not be a problem.

It's definitely not a problem when a WS - or anyone - fails to answer questions that they generally can't answer.

My W never could answer timing questions well - that is, Qs about when something happened or about sequence. Phi Beta Kappa, but she just doesn't organize her experience around time and timing. Me? I might have trouble with questions about what exactly was said or about feelings, but I'm great on time questions.

Depends on context for me. My WH has ALWAYS been terrible about remembering timing or when things occurred. There was a big difference for me between "I don't remember" and "I don't remember the exact day or month but it was between this event and this event."

I agree with sisoon - context is important.

I've been with my H a long time and I know how his brain works. He'll see a trailer for a movie that's not in theaters yet, then he'll see that same trailer a few days later and think that he's already seen the movie. It's literally impossible, but he's pretty adamant - until I show him that there's no way that he could have seen it.

He doesn't remember things like I do. He conflates stories often. He has a pretty scattered memory already, and then you add shame on top of it and there are lots of things that he no longer remembers about his infidelity. Big things. Honestly, this far out, I'm glad he's that way. I don't WANT him to think of the APs. Or, god forbid, have fond memories.

In the beginning, though, he remembered a lot more, of course, and he was forthcoming. But there were still things that he just couldn't summon. Maybe he was withholding. Maybe not. I doubt it. I grilled the hell out of him for months, and he willingly sat through interrogations, so he was very scared that he would give me a different story and I'd be pissed. But, again, I know how his brain works so I cut him a wee bit of slack.

If your wayward is typically very good with details, but saying that they don't remember, it's probable that they're lying. It's also possible that they've stuffed it and it's hard to get at.

The amount of communication between XWH and AP was so voluminous, that there are things and timing that he probably didn't remember. Of course, there are some details that IDR or IDK were lies to save his behind. He did say later that he minimized to "save me from being hurt more".

I agree that context is important and the WS’s historical ability to recall (or not) certain things is key. That said, for me, the "context" of how they have used "I don’t know" and "I don’t remember" through disclosure is important as well.

Generally, my WW is VERY good with names. She can recall all of the names of the kids my son played soccer with when he was 6-9 years old (he is 38 now). Yet on D-Day "claimed" not to remember the name of the AP she had an 18-24 month EA/PA with (duration is in question because "she doesn’t remember"). I knew his name from being told by his SIL so when I "reminded her", she about shat herself. As we talked more about this affair, she recalled the AP’s wife’s name, his son’s name (who was born during the affair), many specific conversations, yet can’t remember how, when and why they ended the affair……or whether it was 6-7 months or 18-24 months long (she told me of an event where it started which I know was in 11/97 and meeting for sex at my son’s travel baseball tourney in 6/99. Her "estimate" was the affair lasted 6-7 months but this puts it at least 18 months just for the physical aspect).

Also, on D-Day when she was blatantly lying about the number of APs and when it all ended, I named the name of another suspected AP. She said "I don’t know who that is". Turns out he WAS an AP. Over the course of disclosure, it went from "it was only once and I was really drunk" to weeks of flirting/inappropriate behavior at the workplace that culminated in a pre-planned meeting for sex at the AP’s house while AP’s wife was out of town. WW remembers being out with a friend, getting the call to go to AP’s house, the time of day it was, where his house was, doing the deed and sitting on the porch afterward chatting. She even remembers AP saying "this is nice. My wife doesn’t sit on the porch with me". This was all 20 years ago and a long way from "I don’t know who that is".

So from where I sit, even given the long ago timeframes, I take any affair related "I don’t remember" responses as utter BS. This was even driven home a few weeks ago (14 months after D-Day) when my WW disclosed she had recalled AP #2’s last name and with that info recalled and verified where he lived, where they used to meet up (church near his house) and the fact he died 9 years ago. She had been sitting on this info for weeks despite an agreement that she would disclose any recovered memories or discovered information immediately. Her reason : "It would have resulted in a long talk and I didn’t want to do that. BTW, I am proud that I didn’t lie and say I just discovered this info"….

It is all a ruse. They remember they just don't like consequences so play dumb until the facts stare them in the face like a deer in headlights.

So from where I sit, even given the long ago timeframes, I take any affair related "I don’t remember" responses as utter BS.

Sitting right next to you, brother.

[This message edited by Wiseoldfool at 4:09 AM, Saturday, September 30th]

Cheating spouses have crystal clear memories about all the minor offenses that their betrayed spouse committed to justify their affairs— like the one time I left my laundry on the floor— but have amnesia when it comes to the relevant details of their affairs. How convenient!

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 12:56 AM, Saturday, September 30th]

WOF,

You worte..

I think two things are true:

1. "I don’t remember" is among the most destructive things a wayward can say to a betrayed; and

2. Waywards often remember far more than they admit.

I would add

3. They frequently claim they don't remember things they already admitted to.

The only way they couldn't remember is if they have so many affairs or so long an affair that it's a second life.

An affair is like getting hit by a car or riding a hippo.

Yes very strange how they remember the justifications for the affair.

[This message edited by survrus at 1:14 AM, Saturday, September 30th]

My H had his affair and I knew the day it started due to behavior changes. He was a mean gaslighting ass during his A.

One of my few groundrules I set on Dday was he answer every single question I ask and he was NOT ALLOWED to use that phrase.
If he did all bets were off. It was the first time I was confident in my choices and taking back some control.

For more than 6 mos I was the world's worst wife. Too fat, too soft on the kids, not a good housekeeper, too invested in my work, cooked too much unhealthy food, it went on and on. His gaslighting and meanness wore me down.

One thing I was not going to tolerate anymore was lies half truths and omissions of truth.

Not only did I stick to this, but part of our healing became calling each other out for unhealthy behaviors. Calling it out by simply saying "bullshit". We still 15 years later do this. He likes to emblish a story to make it better and I will call it out this way.

It is just so true.

The only good thing to come of all this deceit is it teaches you the BS to be meticulous with your word.

There is one lie that he is just sitting on and it’s so toxic. There is a place they went and it has a really weird name - like picture it was Fantasy Island. So if you go to Fantasy Island you just know. You either went or you didn’t. It’s a special place, you have to take a special connector road to get there, it has a weird name and in this case you went to this place under top secrecy to keep it from your wife. So you would know.

So when he did the big data dump last summer he revealed 90% of what had occurred and the fact that it had all been a PA. But for Fantasy Island instead of saying he went there he said he had a "weird image of himself walking around Fantasy Island" and he couldn’t remember if he was there with his sister, me or the AP. I have absolutely never been to Fantasy Island. Most importantly because you would know right, it’s Fantasy Island, you would know.

But he couldn’t say yes he went for a two hour walk or whatever he did there with her. Sneaking away, planning it with her, driving there, parking, driving home, hiding it, etc. The marriage counselor completely agreed. IF YOU WENT TO FANTASY ISLAND WITH THE AP YOU WOULD KNOW - 100% YOU WOULD KNOW. He was essentially forced to admit that it was absolutely absurd to imply he wouldn’t know 100% either yes or no that you guys went there. So he has taken the position that because he doesn’t know then he must not have gone there.

It’s laughable but I honestly can’t fight a battle over it. It just sits there like a steaming turd in the middle of our foyer. Unreal.

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 10:01 PM, Sunday, October 1st]

This:

It just sits there like a steaming turd in the middle of our foyer. Unreal.

Is the perfect description of the "I don’t remember" phenomenon.

Thank you for your feedback, it helps me know I’m not alone and I’m not crazy.

I know this thread isn't meant for humor, however it reminds of a comment I made to my XW.

I posed the question to her about a particular point of interest of mine and her response was that she did not recall.

I have been known over the years to be a slightly puerile from time to time. So I responded if someone was sticking something into an orifice of mine I think would remember just about everything about that moment and everything related.

So from where I sit, even given the long ago timeframes, I take any affair related "I don’t remember" responses as utter BS.

Sitting right next to you, brother.

Agree 100%.

For me, my H does remember. He just doesn’t want to admit it.

Going forward I don’t know or I don’t remember doesn’t fly. And I’m like a dog with a bone - I am not dropping it until I get an answer.

That’s what two affairs and his plotting to D me will do to a person. He created this and sadly now he has to suffer the consequences 🤣🤣🤣

[This message edited by The1stWife at 11:15 PM, Saturday, September 30th]

I don’t think I said the "I don’t remember" thing, but if you sat me down now and asked me details, there would be fewer I would recall. I could still produce a generally good timeline but in my case the affair was relatively short, if it spanned a longer timeframe I am sure I could get lost on some of the order things happened.

I think when it’s fresh it’s absolute bullshit because often the ruminating about the ap is part of keeping the high. Once the need for that goes away and you rarely think about them or push it away when they do come to mind, it’s easy for me to see how I could maybe honestly not remember some of the finer details of something. Usually if my husband thinks of an occasional question, it’s not stuff like that. It’s usually more about the evolution of perspective. But if I was asked minute details, I honestly probably could be stumped on it.

So context, depends on what it is. And the same would be true for any relationship I have ever had. We lose memories. I was talking to an old friend that I remembered a funny way her husband would ask to be cuddled back when we spent more time together- she had no idea what I was talking about! And it wasn’t like I heard this one time, it was often referenced and she had no recollection. It felt twilight zone.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:38 AM, Monday, October 2nd]

I actually prefer this response when it’s honest vs. a lie made up to make me feel better. I don’t believe a cheater can forget how he felt during different points in the affair, but when asking for details irrelevant to them I can see how they’d not remember. For example "what was she wearing that night?"🤷‍♀️, "did you take her to this restaurant before or after you went here with her?"🤷‍♀️ "what did she say when you said XYZ?" 🤷‍♀️…. These answers would be hard to remember to those who don’t find them not worthy. However, questions like "how did you feel coming home after f’ing them the first time?" "Did the guilt get easier" , How did you justify your cheating?" . These answers you don’t forget.

Hiking Out

I appreciate your comment. It directly pertains to my likely angst when I read my husband’s much anticipated Timeline which had better be the affair-related equivalent of War and Peace given the amount of time it has taken to be written. Lately, when I ask him about the status and content of the document he has said "wait till the book comes out…". Okay.

You say that remembering the order of events could be difficult in an A of meaningful length. I am not requesting exact dates, given it has been 7 years. But I have requested a proper ordering of events. First, because this is chiefly the purpose of the Timeline in my mind. The trauma of the A—and lying about it for 7 years— has turned my memories into a complete jumble and frankly challenged my sanity. I need things put in order. I also thought that the personal knowledge he has of what was going on at the time should make the task easier, because you would only have gone to X place and done Y if events V and W had already occurred. That sort of thing. But, we are both deeply traumatized by these events so I guess I should not be rigid in my expectations.

My therapist asked my if he could fail in this task. I said I would consider completion an A plus. I hope I can hold myself to that.

I am starting to forget and scramble up even the things I knew quite clearly at the time. I am viewing that now as a sort of blessing. His seeming concern with addressing why he needed to lie so much is starting to soothe my anger a bit.

[This message edited by Stillconfused2022 at 7:39 AM, Monday, October 2nd]

BTW…Hardyfool: That was hilarious!