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I would really like to know (whether you Rd or not) what you think the process of healing was?

If you Dd, what was it that allowed you to move on from it in tact? What was it that made you feel good again? If you were in IC what was the process of that helping move you towards healing?

If you Rd, what elements do you feel were completely essential to move forward feeling good again? What were the "must haves" and what parts did you do with your WS and which on your own?

I'm just trying to get a picture of what different people's advice is for how you move from traumatised and in pain, to feeling peaceful and safe.

If its helpful, it's because I want to put together a goal or strategy plan for myself if I decide to stay seperated. Aside from an hour a week with a therapist, I want to know what key things might help.

If I do decide to give R another chance, I'd also like to have a strategy in place for that. R was failed before because we really did nothing. So I'd just like to know what others found essential so I can crystallise my own thoughts.

I am currently in a situation of separation from WS I still love, who didn't engage R, but is now willing to do anything and I'm really not sure what it is 100% that I need.

I am divorcing and it's taken many years of healing (still am)

The number 1 component to my healing was leaving xWS and being away from his emotional abuse, gaslighting and constant reoffending.

I surrounded myself with a very strong support system after his (I believe 3rd) Affair. The group of ladies I made my people were a godsend and we still to this day are a tight nit group. One girlfriend in particular has been my rock and I am hers. We both experienced infidelity with highly narcissistic partners together and could commiserate. She also has a PhD in Psychology so is a great sounding board. I also spent lots of time with my family who have supported me through the aftermath, leaving him and now divorcing.

My therapist (still see him too) helped me get to a point where I was thinking more clearly and as I detached more and more from my xWS I felt ready to leave. It's taken me 3 years since leaving to feel strong enough that I can say I am fully healed. I no longer have guilt about leaving or second guess any of my decisions.

My health was in really poor shape both mentally and physically when I left xWS. I was ready to check myself into a mental hospital for a third time and having suicide ideation again (I attempted suicide in 2012 after I kept catching xWS with MOW). Since leaving I got off my anti-depressant and mood stabilizer, started exercising and losing weight. I was able to finally bring my blood pressure and cholesterol down (they were so high my doctor said I could have a stroke or heart attack at any minute).

I also incorporated meditation and mindfulness and still use these techniques to calm myself. Yoga helped immensely with my body, mind and soul healing.

And finally I met someone new. A man who has changed my viewpoint on men completely. Who is so completely polar opposite from my ex I have to pinch myself that I met someone who is so wonderful and capable of deep love, intimacy and empathy.

I never thought I would heal when I was in my M and probably wouldn't have if I hadn't left. My health would still be running downhill both mentally and physically and probably would have died from those symptoms eventually. Life with xWS was a living hell.

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 5:58 PM, Tuesday, September 26th]

I’m going to weigh with my own experience. It may or may not work for you but this was what worked for me

First, I think you did the right thing by separating. It gives the cheater the sense that you have boundaries, are not afraid to walk out if necessary AND you won’t tolerate the lies and disrespect.

Second I think your spouse is SAYING “I’m willing to do anything”, but it will take time to prove it.

I had every intention of D my H on dday2 so I really didn’t care what he did. I was just waiting until after the holidays to start the proceedings.

I didn’t tell him to do anything. I did not set boundaries. I didn’t give him books to read. I did tell him he was on his own to figure out how to R. I wasn’t helping him nor providing support.

Immediately I saw he was doing things. On his own. So after the first 30 days I figured I would just watch. I was convinced he would not continue w/ making amends beyond 60 days.

I was very wrong. His effort was 100% for years. And that is the only reason we are still here. He didn’t make promises. He didn’t beg and plead for me to tell him what to do to fix this mess.

I’m suggesting you do the same. Tell your spouse — you figure it out. If the cheater does nothing — then you know they weren’t all in. If they makes a few attempts and quits- again, they weren’t all in.

Stop being the marriage police and caretaker. IMO if the cheater has enough brain power to figure out how to cheat, they have enough brain power to figure out how to R.

There are TONS of books and websites and podcasts to help the cheater figure it out.

I had IC for myself for years. It helped me tremendously. I figured out what I needed to make me feel fulfilled and happy. I think that when I decided to R I was a stronger person with a better sense of how I wanted my life to be.

If my H didn’t fit the mold and didn’t change, I would have had no choice but to D him. I was not going to remain married to a lying cheater, no matter how much I loved him.

IMO if you tell the cheater what to do, that is all they do. They aren’t forced to really look at the damage and figure out how to fix it. They are just taking direction and going what is asked. And that doesn’t show their commitment to the marriage.

To me it just shows they are willing to do a few things to get out of the doghouse.

I hope this helps you.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 6:37 PM, Tuesday, September 26th]

I am also very interested in the answers to this question and find myself in a similar situation to MintChocChip.
I am separating, but am not as far out from DDay as MCC. I still love my WW, she is actually doing some of the work required for R, but my ambivalence is extremely confusing. It seems like healing oneself is a prerequisite to working on and healing the marriage. If I'm overwhelmed with judgement, disgust, hatred, and horror, how can I be a spouse capable of creating a functional relationship?
In this time apart recommendations have included finding a support network, IC, meditation/mindfulness, journaling, and exercise. I'm hopeful that those things will help sort myself out, but I fear living in limboland will slow the healing and be a distraction from focusing on myself. I'm not sure how to go forward without the clear goal of D or R.

I think the ambivalence is natural and to be expected. You are now re-evaluating everything.

It comes down to are you better with or without the cheater? Only you can decide.

And the decision can change too. You may decide to R but in 3 years you may change your mind. It could be affair related or for very different reasons.

I will take time to properly read and respond to everyone 1stWife but where I am at now is, after three years of saying "no way" to counselling - he's written to me to ask if I would consider speaking to him with a counsellor to see if there is a way forward.

He's also seemingly done notable "him" work in identifying (and engaging audiobooks) to establish that the reason he's felt unable to do "the work" is that he has PTSD from the affair which he says meant he felt he had to avoid thinking about it.

He's reading the books and working on things and says he feels he needs treatment for the PTSD in order to meet my needs without it triggering huge anxiety for him and he says he will do it and he's sorry he didn't do it before.

He apologised, very well, for not doing better.

So let's see.

I remain pretty annoyed that I had to walk out to see this progress though...

I don’t know how you interpret this new behavior from him.

All of a sudden he wants counseling with you. Could be a good thing OR it could be viewed as he’s doing it to appease you.

Three years is a long time to wait. Again is he going this b/c you left or is he really invested in making amends?

It might be with hearing what he has to say if you are interested in R.

Or maybe you are just tired of his excuses and there’s no point in doing that.

Only you know how you feel.

I just hope his efforts are not too late.

I'm in R.

My H told the OW upfront that he would never leave me. It was supposed to be a FWB A, but she was a partner predator. He unwittingly fed her information about me, about what he wanted, about how he was unhappy, and she used it to manipulate him into catching feelings. About six months into the A, he invited me to start MC thinking that I would say no and he'd have an easy out, but what MC did was help me gain personal strength and helped both of us start looking inward instead of at each other to fix what was wrong. And he couldn't handle the juxtaposition of being unfaithful and starting to get real with each other. It was very, very lucky for me that we already were already doing the work before he confessed. ANd it was very, very lucky that the MC that he picked randomly out of the phone book was excellent, and specialized in sexual addiction, so he was well-versed in infidelity recovery.

The #1 thing that helped me personally was MC giving me a reading assignment: The Four Agreements. I don't remember if it was before DDay or after. I read the whole thing in one sitting, and then I immediately flipped back to page one and started over with a pencil to underline and take notes. It's about learning to examine the "agreements" that we've made and adhered to from society and from our FOO about who we are. This is an excerpt from the author's site:

As little children, our true nature is to love and be happy, to explore and enjoy life; we are completely authentic. But then we learn to be what others think we "should" be, and because it’s not okay for us to be what we are, we start pretending to be what we are not. By the time we are teenagers, we’ve learned to judge ourselves, punish ourselves, and reward ourselves according to agreements that we never even chose. The Four Agreements help us to break self-limiting agreements and replace them with agreements that bring us freedom, happiness, and love.

These are the Four Agreements that help one break the agreements that aren't working for us. To this day, I have found that I can literally solve any problem by applying them, especially the second one:

1. Be Impeccable with Your Word. Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

2. Don't Take Anything Personally. Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won’t be the victim of needless suffering.

3. Don't Make Assumptions. Find the courage to ask questions and to express what you really want. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

4. Always Do Your Best. Your best is going to change from moment to moment; it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick. Under any circumstance, simply do your best, and you will avoid self-judgment, self-abuse and regret.

So, when DDay happened, it was quite difficult for me to NOT take what he had done personally, but I kept on applying the 4Agr, which really helped me to not accept shoddy treatment.

#2: On day one, I told him that I wanted to R, but that my boundary was that he had to end the A. He refused, and we decided that we would live under the same roof for the kids until we divorced. On day two, I decided that wasn't going to work for me. I was not going to have him bear witness to my pain while he was still with her, and I asked him to leave. He moved in with his mom. Not taking any shit from the WS is a VERY IMPORTANT part of recovery for the BS, IMO. It's paramount, whether you R or D. I 100% believe that letting the WS who refuses to end the A feel the consequences of their actions is necessary in order to R.

#3 is a requirement for honesty, authenticity, and transparency, and owning our shit. I demanded the truth from H in order to R and he gave it. I demanded details. I didn't want the AP to know more than I did. I didn't want him to have any more secrets from me. I asked everything. Sometimes it was very hard to hear and very hard for him to say, but he gave it. And then we learned to be transparent with each other. Transparency isn't just the WS letting the BS check their phone and know of their whereabouts. It's sharing feelings and thoughts in real time. It's baring your soul to each other. It's letting your partner have a peak inside to how your brain works.

#4 was doing something that spoke to my soul. I went away for the weekend by myself (before R) to prove to myself that I didn't NEED him. I took a creative writing class. I laid in the grass and looked at the sky. I spent more time with my girlfriends. I went for long drives with the windows down and cranked up my music. I did things that helped me feel good and feel connected to the universe.

And #5, and this is a very important one, and relates to #1, was telling him that I was done with being criticized for not being who he wanted me to be. This one happened a few years in. I told him that this is who I am and he can take it or leave it, and I meant it. I was prepared emotionally for him to decide to leave. But he didn't, and now credits this action for truly starting the change in dynamic that made our marriage happy and relaxed.

#6 is IC. We both didn't start digging into at our own FOO stuff until this year. It's made a huge difference. I discovered that I likely have ADHD and that hypersensitivity to stimuli, which I have, often goes hand in hand with ADHD. Knowing this helped my H to stop taking my aversion to certains types of touch personally, and helped me stop feeling like a freak. We now have workarounds and I've learned to advise him on HOW to touch me in ways that feel good and don't make me freak out and want to run away.

This is a great thread. Thanks for starting it!

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 10:36 PM, Tuesday, September 26th]

I remain pretty annoyed that I had to walk out to see this progress though...

Like I said above, and will always, always affirm, the WS often needs to feel the consequences of their behavior in order to effect real change. And the BS needs to learn to own their power.

I'm rather excited for you that it's working, and that he's asked for counseling. That's great news!

[This message edited by SacredSoul33 at 9:37 PM, Tuesday, September 26th]

The1stWife

I’m suggesting you do the same. Tell your spouse — you figure it out. If the cheater does nothing — then you know they weren’t all in. If they makes a few attempts and quits- again, they weren’t all in.

Yeah, I am in a place where I feel ready to let go of the M and out life together so I feel able to let him sink or swim now. I am sad I didn't get there earlier - but it took me time to stop trying to do everything. Left to his own devices, he has proved very capable.

I think I ultimately spent so long waiting - thinking if he was do this or do that, that I could start healing. I felt trapped in it. Now, I guess, this post is about knowing that I am going to heal - either way. And taking control of that process.

I don’t know how you interpret this new behavior from him.

All of a sudden he wants counseling with you. Could be a good thing OR it could be viewed as he’s doing it to appease you.

I don't fully either, but I think it's genuine. Let's wait and see.

Three years is a long time to wait. Again is he going this b/c you left or is he really invested in making amends?

I think it's more than he realises "time" and "love" are not going to resolve it and he needs to take action or he's going to end up not just without me, but always being someone who's a bit messed up. A lot of his talk today (started speaking again) was about healing himself. Not us. But I find it positive that he's recognised that's been the key block to R.

It might be with hearing what he has to say if you are interested in R.

Or maybe you are just tired of his excuses and there’s no point in doing that.

Only you know how you feel.

I just hope his efforts are not too late.

We agreed he'd carry on as he is, and update me on progress. That feels okay right now.

Crazyblindsided, when I read your post I felt pretty much happy for you that you made a choice and know it was the right one. Everything you describe are things I have felt, and I am so sorry you experienced such trauma but it sounds like you were strong, brave and made choices to feel better. I think the advice on the stress management sounds awesome (stay or go) because like you, my health really hit the bins with all this.

@fairestotseasons

I still love my WW, she is actually doing some of the work required for R, but my ambivalence is extremely confusing. It seems like healing oneself is a prerequisite to working on and healing the marriage. If I'm overwhelmed with judgement, disgust, hatred, and horror, how can I be a spouse capable of creating a functional relationship?

I think anyone who isn't ambivalent in this process is probably a bit deranged! How can you NOT be? You are battling against so many factors which all conflict. You love someone who has become your injurer. It's a mental quandary for any person.

In this time apart recommendations have included finding a support network, IC, meditation/mindfulness, journaling, and exercise. I'm hopeful that those things will help sort myself out, but I fear living in limboland will slow the healing and be a distraction from focusing on myself. I'm not sure how to go forward without the clear goal of D or R.

I am personally finding the separation helpful. It's given me time to really work through and process a lot of this stuff in a way I couldn't when he was there. I know it's not the same for everyone, but so far a month apart has actually been cleansing for me. It sounds small, but I sleep when I want, eat when I want, cry when I want, write here, read affair things without worrying he will see and feel bad. It is - I guess - all about ME.

Of course it is very helpful that he is available 24/7 if I want or need him and he's being very kind and I don't have to deal fully with his loss yet. He's made it clear he is staying there and always will be, and he will wait however long it takes and will never leave the M unless that's what I choose.

T completely understand the need to feel like you're making a choice one way or the other, but honestly I think R is a decision you have to make every day. Just like marriage is.

Sacred. Wow. I have read your post so many times because it really connected with me (as posts here sometimes do).

I *LOVE* the four agreements. I actually love the idea of regaining emotional independence in the sense that my value and worth and security is set by ME. And is no longer something anyone can call me up one day and take away.

The thing about the next section of your post is that it reminded me really of the fact that immediately after his A, I set in place 10 boundaries. 10 ABSOLUTE essentials that he had to to in order to regain my trust and keep the M. As I recall it, he kept them all for three months and then started breaking about 50% of them repeatedly.

After a year of doing that, it's understandable we fought a lot and R wasn't progressing. He did meet about half of them, and they were huge positive changes, but he didn't meet all. And I didn't leave, I just got frustrated and angry and like you say - he never felt the consequences.

I cannot go back in time and get a perfect R. I am never going to be the person who got 100% from the get go, and there's no point trying to travel back in time to get the things I needed and didn't get, but I think I can become the person who gets 100% or nothing NOW.

I really want to be that person now, because I think doing that makes it right with ME.

Your essentials are great. I hope this thread gives me food for thought and establishing what - specifically, I want from him in order to feel I am getting that 100% and also to understand if he can't or won't give it that I have the tools and abilities to heal regardless and move forward with my relationship with myself in tact.

I think, weirdly, he knows I am now willing to do that and he knew I wasn't before and s you have said that has definitely changed things for him.

@sacred

I'm rather excited for you that it's working, and that he's asked for counseling. That's great news!

Here's something I noted. In the early days (panic after DDay) he agreed to counselling and he went for a while but he wasn't committed to it. He ultimately doesn't believe in counselling, and has a real thing about it. I mean the idea of him attending counselling would have almost been a joke before the A. This is a guy who shares nothing and thinks all that stuff is new age nonsense for simple people. So when he agreed the first time, it was in a panic to stop me from leaving (as he fully expected me to leave).

Since then, I think life got in the way, but ultimately he was avoiding it. He was always too busy or sick or stressed and I guess most of the time I was kind of emotionally blackmailing into forgetting about it! In arguments, I would often bring it up or suggest it and he'd say "I am not going to talk to some stranger!" and I remember having ONE random MC session a couple of years ago where he just did not want to talk or open up.

So he has now said he's been googling counsellors and is open to it. He was totally calm, it was his suggestion. It sounded a bit like he'd come to a point of realising something huge had to change. I don't know how I feel about MC right now, but maybe trying a short set of sessions from someone who understands these things would be helpful.

Along with the counselling thing for the A, I also knew he was traumatised from the AP and everything that happened. He had PTSD as a child and I know he'd been an in patient in his childhood with it, so it was very severe. I knew pretty well he'd had a full on breakdown after the A - it was genuinely bad - and I have provided (as 1stWife says) all the books and therapists numbers and everything hoping he'd help himself. He didn't, because he didn't want to. I think me being there and comforting him was a sticking plaster to allow him to carry on.

So after I left, he started reading those books. They're not about affairs, they are about trauma and childhood shit and things that must be immensely hard for him to think about. And he's been talking about what he's learned and he said "hey so I am not making excuses for myself, but this book has explained why I might have felt this way or said this and I wanted to explain i to you so you'd understand it wasn't because I didn't love you".

So that feels to me like a small step towards working on himself for HIMSELF - not as some kind of terrible penance for cheating. These things make me feel better. Not excited, but soothed. For him also, because he has seriously made himself sick by bottling all this stuff up

I *LOVE* the four agreements. I actually love the idea of regaining emotional independence in the sense that my value and worth and security is set by ME. And is no longer something anyone can call me up one day and take away.

I really want to be that person now, because I think doing that makes it right with ME.

YES YES YES!

I'm a firm believer in healthy selfishness. Putting yourself first. If you can get right with yourself, everything else will fall into place.

I was feeling very insecure financially while we were separated for about a month, but it was so much more important to me to refuse to allow myself to be anguished from having him in close proximity while his head and heart were a million miles away. It felt 1000x more honorable to me to be an anxious mess from not knowing where he was or what he was doing or what he was thinking or how he was feeling than to have him nearby knowing that he didn't want to be there and he didn't want me. And I got some good work out of being that tortured mess and trying not to be.

In that first month, I wasn't perfect, but I got better and stronger with each passing day. I not only set my own boundaries, but after a couple of weeks I abided by his, and that made all the difference. He wanted to be left alone to think without outside influence. He told me and the AP to please leave him be. I did. She didn't. He felt respected by me and frustrated by her. She was excited at the prospect of being with him and was making plans and asking him to come over, and not acknowledging that he was in pain from blowing up his marriage and hurting me, his children, his friends and family.

Now is what matters. Honoring yourself is what matters. You've done a terrific job of taking what you need from SI and leaving the rest, and following what you know to be right for you. Had I listened to the standard SI advice of remaining unwavering in a hard 180, I don't think I'd be married today. He needed to feel that I still wanted to be married to him, but that I wasn't going to take any crap to keep him. I told him that I loved him, that I wanted him, but that I was furious with him and I was putting myself first. I had forgotten about that and I need to remember that when I'm giving advice to newbies. Sometimes hard and fast rules don't work. Sometimes you have to improvise and tweak along the way.

It's possible that your H is blowing smoke up your skirt by asking you to go to MC, but you'll never know until you try. And you're far enough along in this process and smart enough to know if he's being authentic in MC or just trying to placate you.

My H also had a very rough childhood and is in IC right now for it. It shapes how a person thinks and behaves, of course, and he's been digging into that. I hope your H will recognize that healing from some traumas requires the help of a professional. It used to be standard schtick on SI that if you broke your arm, you wouldn't set it yourself and expect it to heal properly. You'd go to a doctor. Same with your mind. His brain was broken by childhood trauma, and a good professional who knows what they're doing is the best option for getting that healed properly, too.

I really enjoy your posts. Keep 'em coming!

Hi there, I don’t post often but your post made me want to and stress more than anything how important it is to realize everyone on this forum has REAL-life experience and knows what the F*** is going on. I read all of them after my D-day in August 2022. I was desperately wanting to reconcile and my soon to be XH made me believe the same. I caught him again and that’s when I told him if things didn’t change before the end of the year that I was done. If he couldn’t be transparent with me and have 100% NC, I was done. I am so glad I set this artificial boundary. He was all talk, no action and I was just done. 22 years together and three kids. We had houses, tons of great friends, a great life, or so I thought. I was done listening to him project blame to me and focus on the things I didn’t do in the marriage.
We will be divorced in a month. Am I sad? Absolutely. I would’ve never imagined my life the way it is now. But the bottom line is, if he hadn’t LEFT me and moved out while he still had his head in his ass, I wouldn’t have known what it feels like to have this new found freedom and finally NOT worry about who was with or what he was doing. It’s sad now because he is miserable and will do anything. But I am over it. Not ready to date yet, but I’ve been going out a ton and having fun. We have a very good relationship but I could never be with him again. And unless your partner is willing to move mountains and do things on YOUR terms, I truly believe things won’t change. I knew I would never feel that sense of security that I always had with him. I would never feel it again. It sounds lonely and challenging to take life on yourself, but I promise you, I don’t regret it at all. I gave him multiple chances to give me the bare minimum of what I needed. He couldn’t do it by my deadline. And so many people in here will tell you how easy it is to get stuck in limbo with your partner. Most of the time, you’ve just wasted several years of your life. I didn’t want to do that.

Sacred

I'm a firm believer in healthy selfishness. Putting yourself first. If you can get right with yourself, everything else will fall into place

I have realised something since I left. My WS never actually WANTED me to put him first. So I am not sure why I did. Catholic Martyr complex? Weird variation of pick me dance? Something for me to think about. But I got very resentful at something I was choosing to do. What I could have done is actually taken control of the situation. I feel like doing that now was the right decision.

Now is what matters. Honoring yourself is what matters. You've done a terrific job of taking what you need from SI and leaving the rest, and following what you know to be right for you.

Thanks on this. I accept sometimes I get it wrong, and I might need to take advice a few months later than would have been best but I also need to do everything in my own time

Had I listened to the standard SI advice of remaining unwavering in a hard 180, I don't think I'd be married today. He needed to feel that I still wanted to be married to him, but that I wasn't going to take any crap to keep him.

Yes, I think my situation is the same! If i withdrew everything entirely I think he would just feel more hopeless and therefore have no motivation. Not that me leaving was about him. Actually, I know fairly well that had I left earlier he would have acted earlier - but I would have been leaving to force his hand. I left when I actually wanted to leave for me, and frankly didn't care what he did, and that was a more authentic route for me personally.

It's possible that your H is blowing smoke up your skirt by asking you to go to MC, but you'll never know until you try. And you're far enough along in this process and smart enough to know if he's being authentic in MC or just trying to placate you.

Yeah. How I have left it for now is that I said we could talk regularly - with ground rules - and that he will do "work" on himself in that time and he can speak to me about that if he wants to. And that I would be getting on with my life without him and helping myself feel better. I said we could see how that goes for a while because unless there was a clear path forward to change and healing; I was not going to come back.

He was pretty calm in accepting that and was really respectful of how I felt and agreed entirely that he needs to sort himself out. I liked that.

Where I am unsure is actually seeing each other. Up until now, I have refused to see him. But yesterday his grandmother died and I feel I need to go to the funeral. In terms of other contact, I am not sure what to do. He has suggested we spend some long weekends together to recapture all the good things - and I felt quite mixed feelings on that.

Because I want to see him and spend time together doing nice things, as well as hopefully beginning "the work" but at the same time I don't want him to fall into complacency so I thought maybe completely not seeing him was best. Opinions would be appreciated.

The 180 is a process in which the BS with an unremorseful WS builds up their (the BS's) strength so the BS can detach and D. It minimizes communication, in part because communication with an unremorseful WS is a mind-fuck.

If R is on the table, the BS needs to maximize communication, because the messages the WS send out are the best evidence of the WS's quality as a candidate for R. A good candidate makes R possible, IF the BS wants R. A poor candidate is a lousy bet for R, no matter how much the BS wants R.

*****

There are a lot of ways to answer your question, MCC, many of which I've used during my participation on SI. The following is what jumps out of the morass that is my brain today.

The 1st part of healing for me was activating my 'inner observer'. My IO sent messages like, 'Of course you feel like shit; you're in a shitty sitch' and 'of course you feel like you're on a roller coaster - it's normal to go back and forth and every which way' and 'Go with the flow; you'll end up where you ought to be', etc., etc., etc.

The 2nd part was to accept and feel my feelings - grief, anger, fear, shame. I mean 'feel' - I let them flow through and out of my body. If I sensed filters, I did my best to get to an unfiltered place.

The 3rd part was to identify if I wanted R from strength or from weakness. I decided my desire came from strength - R was what I really wanted. W still made my heart skip beats and my knees feel weak after 43 years of M. I was still in love with her like I was when I was 21. I observed my W and decided she was a great candidate for R.

I identified my requirements for R: 1) NC; 2) honesty - no more lies; 3) transparency - she kept me informed of location, companions (is any), and activities at virtually all times; 4) IC for her; 5) MC for us; 6) W had to initiate sex some time; 7) W had to arrange weekly dates; etc. (There were a few other requirements that turned out not to be requirements, so they got dropped.)

In general, W had to demonstrate that she loved me, desired me, and would stay monogamous.

The 4th part was recreating positive, nurturing self-talk. I had gone through several bouts of therapy and 5 years before d-day I had finally gotten to a place in which I was a happy man who sometime felt grief, anger, fear, and shame. I had switched from pessimist to optimist. I was aware of most of my negative self-talk, and I was doing great at shutting it down and nurturing myself.

On d-day, I started becoming aware of very deeply ingrained levels of negative self-talk, so I had to start over, relearning how to hear it, stopping the attacks, and changing the messaging to nurture myself.

Agh posted in wrong thread

[This message edited by crazyblindsided at 6:07 PM, Thursday, September 28th]